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Episode Description
As the Super Bowl kicks off this weekend, we sit down with Father Patrick Hyde, Catholic chaplain at Indiana University, to discuss the remarkable faith of Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Fernando Mendoza, and why Catholicism is experiencing a striking revival on college campuses. Father Hyde reflects on walking with student-athletes in their spiritual lives, the discipline of faith and sports, and why hundreds of young adults are seeking the Church through campus ministry.
With the growing mental health crisis facing families and parishes, we speak with Dr. Greg Popcak, Catholic psychologist and host of More to Life on EWTN, about how Catholics can confront depression, anxiety, and loneliness with both faith and sound psychological care. In light of Bishop Michael Burbidge’s recent pastoral letter on mental health, Dr. Popcak offers practical guidance for parents, couples, and parish leaders on supporting those who are struggling, and breaking the stigma over seeking help.
As the Archdiocese of New York says goodbye to Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Monsignor Roger Landry pays honor to the longtime shepherd of Manhattan he has known for over 30 years. Msgr. Landry reflects on the Cardinal’s service and shares a personal tribute to the pastoral legacy he leaves behind, as the Church prepares to welcome new leadership.
Catch the show every Saturday at 7amET/5pmET on EWTN radio!
And don’t forget to subscribe to TCA’s daily media roundup for smart Catholic news and commentary delivered straight to your inbox.
Bios
Father Patrick Hyde is a Dominican priest and the Catholic chaplain at Indiana University where he serves students through the St. Paul Catholic Center. Known nationally for his visible presence alongside IU athletes—including Heisman Trophy winner Fernando Mendoza—Father Hyde focuses on evangelization, discipleship, and sacramental life among young adults. His ministry has seen a dramatic increase in Mass attendance and students seeking to enter the Catholic Church, reflecting a broader revival of faith on college campuses. He holds an MA in Theology and an MDiv from the Aquinas Institute of Theology in St. Louis. In addition to his role at St. Paul’s, he served the National Eucharistic Revival as a National Eucharistic Preacher. He serves on the provincial council of the Dominican Province of St. Albert the Great, on the board of the Aquinas Institute of Theology, and as dean of the Bloomington Deanery in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis.
Dr. Greg Popcak is Founder and Executive Director of the Pastoral Solutions Institute and an author of numerous books and programs integrating Catholic theology and counseling psychology. He is a Fellow of the American Association of Pastoral Counselors, Board Certified Diplomate of the American Board of Examiners in Clinical Social Work, and Chair of the Marriage and Family Studies program at Holy Apostles College and Seminary. He serves as adjunct professor in psychology and graduate theology at Franciscan University. His work has been featured on Fox News, in the Los Angeles Times and Washington Post among others. He is co-host of the long-running EWTN radio program More to Life, founder of CatholicCounselors.com and co-creator of the CatholicHOM App, helping couples and families build stronger relationships rooted in Catholic teaching. He serves as consultant to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops on marriage and family life.
Monsignor Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the UN in New York. In 2024, he was appointed National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA by Pope Francis. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and served as executive editor for the weekly newspaper of the Diocese of Fall River. He is the author of the book, Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God, and leads pilgrimages to Rome, the Holy Land, and other sacred destinations. He was an on-site commentator for EWTN’s coverage of the 2013 papal conclave that elected Pope Francis. He is national chaplain for Catholic Voices USA and New York Chaplain for the Leonine Forum. Father Landry traversed the 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage in 2024, which coincided with his 25th year in the priesthood.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 355 Transcript
| Ashley/Mary | Welcome to conversations with consequences now on EWTN radio. I'm your host, Ashley McGuire, and we are thrilled to have with us Father Patrick Hyde. You are probably familiar with him right now as he has risen to national fame. Donning your Dominican lights out on many a football field. He is a friend and spiritual adviser to Heisman Trophy winning quarterback Fernando Mendoza, who took his team to win the national football championship, a first for Indiana. Welcome to the show, father Patrick Ashley. |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Good to be here. Thanks for having me. |
| Ashley/Mary | So I'm not even a football fan. But I have loved every minute of following the story of, you know, the rise of Fernando Mendoza, but also the kind of concurrent rise of you and the Dominicans on the football field. Truly a new American phenomenon. But tell us about the moment where this all really came into national news. When you open the rectory door to find a, visiting Heisman Trophy. |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, I like to, as I've thought a lot about this, is it all just all of us started with just us Dominicans and me in particular, as the pastor, getting to know our people and making an effort to get to know and to love our people. And over the course of, the months that preceded that, getting to know Fernando, as first and foremost, just as a face in the pews, a student like any of the thousands who come to Mass at Saint Paul Catholic Center, and in many ways, sharing in his success with the Heisman Trophy is pretty much the same. That we have with all of our parishioners, all of our students, when they experience some sort of success and they're connected to the church, they want to share that with us. And so on one level, it was the most beautiful, natural part of being a part of a parish community of. We share this bond, we share this worshiping community. We, are walking together with the Lord. And so we desire to share, our successes. And then it just so happened that in this particular instance, in this particular parishioner, that success was the Heisman Trophy, which is perhaps the most, known, at least image wise, trophy in American sports. And so, yeah, when that, when, Fernando won the Heisman, the week or two after, the Sunday or two after the, the Heisman Trophy ceremony, I was talking with him after mass, and it was right before Christmas. And he said, I would love to bring the Heisman Trophy by before I head home for Christmas. Would that be okay? And I thought, sure, great. That'd be wonderful. On one level, I'm a sports fans. And I was like, wow, what an honor. But on the other level, I was like, you've got a million things to do. That's just a sweet, generous offer. But just the kind of man that Fernando is. I wasn't surprised really at all, when he texted me on Christmas Day where you guys free? Basically, for the next hour or so, I'd like to come by with the trophy and. Sure. Yeah. We'd love to share in that joy with you. And then, there were a group of people in there setting up for Christmas, Christmas Eve. And one of them came over and we all were holding the trophy and asked if, hey, you guys want to take a picture with Fernando? And yeah, and we took a picture. And little did we know that, millions of people would see that picture over the coming days. So that was the beauty of it all, though, actually, is that it just it's just a simple relationship with a parishioner that just happens to be in this prominent way in this prominent award. But there's really the beautiful thing about there's it's not that different than any other person who we are blessed and privileged to serve here at Indiana University. |
| Ashley/Mary | Can you talk a little bit about, Fernando's faith witness? I've noticed increasingly that athletes seem to feel more comfortable talking about their faith. I mean, and I think that's a good thing, it seems to be that whatever it is about whatever the qualities are that help to develop a good athlete, they seem to be connected to Christian virtues, ethics, perseverance. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, is sports having kind of a Christian moment? |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, I would say right now there's a Christian and in particular a Catholic moment with our young people. I know Catholic ministers, campus ministers all over the country who work at Newman Centers, who are, like us here at Indiana University, seeing record numbers of mass attendees and students involved in their ministry and students coming into the church. We're certainly experiencing that here. So I think right now and for our young people in particular, they're searching for something that is rooted, something that is true, something that doesn't get blown about by the winds of change and time. And they're finding that in the Catholic Church or in their exploring that. And so that's the first thing with regards to athletes. Yeah, I mean, we go to the first letter of the Corinthians. Saint Paul says, you know, some athletes run so as to with an imperishable crown, you should run so as to win an imperishable crown. So even in the early church, Saint Paul saw this connection between this work, this endeavor, this virtue that athletes put into pursuing excellence. But that it needs to be and is often, they can get faster and quicker results and move toward the Lord more when there is put that discipline, put that work toward their faith. And I think one of the things that, you know, just in getting to know him and others on the team this year is when, Fernando and some of the other Catholic guys really started to say, hey, let's let's apply that discipline, that order, that structure that we put to our daily lives to be excellent in football into our faith life. And all of a sudden, you see how that little flame of faith in their heart becomes this bonfire, becomes this real joy, because they have that discipline. And it's a lesson for all of us. It's not so much the volume, but if we can be intense, if we can be focused on striving to serve the Lord, growing in grace and virtue, doing, following his commands, that if we are consistent in that, if we do that day after day, things can change in our life and they can change in a hurry. Because God is never outdone in generosity. |
| Ashley/Mary | Talk a little bit more about this college moment. I've seen it all over social media. I saw that you yourself recently tweeted that you you were looking at the spreadsheet for incoming Osseo sign ups, and there was 148 people signed up to go through this program. Were Catholics, learn about becoming Catholic and some, like myself, end up going through with it and becoming Catholics. Why? Why do you think Catholicism is having a moment, especially right now on college campuses? |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, first of all, I'm happy to say that we have now eclipsed more than 150 people who are and who have expressed an interest in becoming Catholic this year. Thanks be to God for that. I think there's two in my. So one of the things is because our Dominican friar, who's in charge of that, simply can't walk alongside 150 people simultaneously. One of the other friars and I on staff have been doing a lot of just the intake interviews. Hey, what attracted you to Catholicism? Kind of. Where are you in your faith journey? How can we help you on your faith journey and people come from various backgrounds. Some of them are coming from traditional, Protestant backgrounds, evangelical background, and they're looking for something, more and more, more traditional, more, rooted, than, you know, less, they're looking for something that in terms of worship, that's not so emotion laden. Some of them are coming from a completely secular background, and they've read their way into the faith, or they've encountered a Catholic Christian on their journey of life. That's led them to think about it. But many come from kind of, I'm going to say, and I guess it's not indifferent, but kind of, a world with like, the coloring on the side of Christianity and, and religion where they maybe their grandparents were religious, maybe they went to a Catholic or Christian school, but they've kind of never really explored it. And they're taking this moment and they're looking at it. And one of the things that they're really attracted to, it's kind of a consistent thing across the board is the sacramental life, in particular the Eucharist, which for me especially is a priest who is involved in the national Eucharistic revival, is a Eucharistic preacher. I think that our Eucharistic revival has really put to the fore the centrality of the Eucharist. And these young people come and they see that and they hear that, and they see what's going on in our churches around the Eucharist. And they want that. They longed for that. But then the other piece of it is the life of grace and conversion of, oh, yeah, no matter what's going on in my life, no matter what I've done, no matter the mistakes I've made, no matter the shortcomings I have, the Lord offers me his grace, his mercy, his love, and not only to restore me, but to make me even better. To offer me a new life continuously of joy, of peace, meaning and of purpose. And they see that that kind of God desires to touch and be active in my life, which we see in the sacraments. But then God also offers me a way of growing and becoming a unique expression of his love. And those two things. Now, of course, our young people aren't saying it in such terms like I am. I've been a priest now for almost ten years, and I'm a nerd, but those are kind of the themes that are coming out, this encounter with the living God in the sacraments and this life with God in the life of grace and virtue. |
| Ashley/Mary | Can you talk a little bit about the logistics of shepherding that many interested people? My back when, it was called RCA, my RCA Group, I think was maybe 15 people. And even that that was a lot of people with a lot of burdens and complexities. How do you shepherd and walk with that many young people who want to come into the church? |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, actually, by God's grace, we've been building here at Saint Paul Catholic Center for the last 14 years. Our campus ministry. And so our entire ministry is based on encountering people, building a relationship with them, and then inviting them into formation, first and foremost, through an encounter with Jesus in the sacraments and in the life of the church. But then also we have we partner with focus. And so a lot of the personal formation goes on and focus Bible studies, a lot of that discipleship formation goes on there. But then because of that, because of the formal discipleship information that's going on, we have so many student leaders, over 120 student leaders who've been through that initial discipleship formation, who are just in the community, who can walk with them. You know, and so when we have all these people coming in, it's not just, hey, show up on Wednesday nights, it's we would we want you to be a part of this formation program, but we also want to make sure that you're getting plugged into one of our focus Bible studies, or with a student who's in discipleship or coming on one of our retreats. And that way, instead of it just all falling on the team that's, centered around, Osseo becoming Catholic program, the whole of our campus ministry program, the whole of our parish is in one way, shape or form supporting these people. Now to your question of going from, you know, you mentioned 15. We had about 30, 35 last year in the program. Total. To go from that to 150 has been has been a shock. And so we're talking about now how do we in our ministry reframe so that like next year, as we look to continue to deepen and build upon this, that we have a night of formation where we have an opportunity for not only this, we call it becoming Catholic or Catholicism 101, but maybe a 201, right? Or 102. To kind of continue to deepen not only this, opportunity for the people becoming Catholic, but also for our students and community members who want to know more about the faith, who want to deepen their walk, but who also can then be a support as sponsors in the program, because that's been a challenge this year, is these people are coming from completely secular backgrounds. They don't know anyone who's Catholic, and now they're becoming Catholic. It's hard to build a relationship with someone overnight to be your sponsor and so next year we're looking at how can we pour more resources into it, how can we make this a focal point of our ministry so that other students who aren't going through the process can be engaged, can walk with those students and help them grow in their discipleship? |
| Ashley/Mary | One of the things that really struck me about the Heisman Trophy moment was, the way you expressed your appreciation for him sharing in his successes with you. And I found it particularly noteworthy because that moment came on the heels of a report that just came out, studying Catholic priests in the United States. And it found a pretty significant shift kind of back towards more orthodoxy to, you know, faithfulness to church teaching. But one of the things that I noticed in that report was that, it noticed an uptick in loneliness among priests. And I found it interesting because we live in such a connected era. Can you speak a little bit about about that and, and kind of what? You know, I think people don't always understand priests and, and the kind of personal relationships that they're looking for. You know, your, your men who've given your life to the church. And I just I found your candidness about that personal sharing really, really lovely. And can you speak a little bit about that, about about priests and what they're looking for in terms of connection with, with the people you're shepherding and so wonderfully serving? |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, we're we're in an epidemic of loneliness as a culture, right? Yes. We have the opportunity to connect in ways that up until this point were unseen, unconscionable to our ancestors. But we also are more keenly aware of when we are alone. And we're constantly stimulated. So when we are alone and when we're not stimulated, we don't know what to do with ourselves. And this creates an even greater sense and awareness of our loneliness. And this is not the problem for priests. This is a cultural problem, and priests are a part of the culture. Priests are a part of life. And so what ends up happening is we don't learn also because we're so able to rapid fire, communicate, we don't learn how to set deep roots in relationships, how to be still with others. In fact, when I work with our young people here and they say, father, I'm thinking about getting married, what are some telltale signs? I always ask them, can you sit in a room or at a coffee shop with that person? And neither one of you have anything to say, and neither one of you have anything to do and be satisfied just simply to be in their presence. That's when you know, hey, this is the person that I really love and treasure because I just treasure their presence. Not what they do, not what they provide, not what they can do for me, but just who they are. And so, I think a lot of challenges is in the priesthood is that we come out of that world into the seminaries and then into the parishes. We come from a world where it's hard to set and maintain deep roots. And it's particularly acute among priests because especially in more rural dioceses, but in many dioceses, younger priests are kind of sent off into more rural areas where it might be a 45 minute to an hour drive to another priest or to another brother. To you. And even then, they might not be someone you know or someone who's in your same age group and this over time, can just create more and more isolation, and we tend to fall into that. And so one of the things I think that's important for us is to just build relationships that are rooted in our common pursuit of holiness and to encourage each other in that and to walk alongside that. Now, obviously, there has to be a certain discretion because there is a dynamic difference between a resource between a parishioner and a pastor. But we have to build those relationships and walk together toward the Lord and, and kind of have a certain amount of mutual vulnerability that creates greater intimacy. And when we can start to find that through a mutual pursuit of the Lord, we then what do we do? Well, rising tides raise our ships. We start to raise each other up. I often say that I once read this. I don't know if it's true, but I read it that the yoke oxen side by side, because when they feel that just that little bit of weight off their shoulders, it in the empowers them. And in the same way with us. But so often what happens in in a parish for most priests, they spend most of their days doing things that are impersonal. They spend doing things that are at a computer screen or on the phone or administratively. Instead of going deep with people, we tend to keep things at an administrative and a surface level. And so I think a real challenge for us in the church today is to create opportunities for the laity to step up in terms of taking on administrative, responsibilities within the church so that priests can spend more time building deep, abiding relationships with the people and inspire them in their own walk with the Lord, and then raise up disciples so that the entire community can be lifted up, changed, and saved. |
| Ashley/Mary | Beautiful. Well, we're almost out of time, but we are headed into Super Bowl Sunday. And I know we talked about, you know, sort of a revival of maybe Christian athletes, but what would you say to young, young people, especially young men who are going to be tuning in to the Super Bowl, who may feel disappointed in, you know, halftime show and the fact that sports often feels kind of tethered to the worst that our culture has to offer. |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Well, I'm going to expose myself here. If it weren't for Indiana University football, I would have not a much of an idea about football. So I have no idea. That makes you and I don't even know who was playing in the Super Bowl or what's going on there, but I think, you know, the challenge is, to be in the world, but not of the world are particularly acute because, you know, even if you're making every effort to put yourself in a position to, to strive after holy things, you know, you go to a news website and what do you see? You see an underwear ad or something like that just on the side, and it's just like, what the heck? I there's no way I've ever done or clicked on anything. Why is that there? Right? We live in this world, that is, you know, the prince of this world is the prince of lies and the Prince of darkness who deceives and who wants to want, doesn't want us to be holy. But I think the most important thing we can do day after day is to own the fact that we are beloved children of God, to live in that reality and to strive after goodness and holiness and all that we do. Because though the prince of this world has the abilities, has the strength to put things in front of us, the King of the universe, Jesus Christ, has overcome all of that and has given each and every one of us the grace not only to persevere, but to become great saints and the saints the world needs today. |
| Ashley/Mary | Well, Father Patrick Hyde, we're so grateful for your time and so grateful for your witness on social media. To the beauties of the church and, love seeing those Dominican whites on football fields and elsewhere. So thank you so much for joining us today. |
| Father Patrick Hyde | Thanks for having me. And God bless you. And all your listeners. |
| Betsy | Welcome back to conversations with consequences, where I am joined by TCA chaplain and national director for the Pontifical Mission Societies in the United States, Monsignor Landry, we have some big changes that are about to happen in the New York dioceses. Can you tell us about that? |
| Msgr Landry | This Friday, February 6th, Cardinal Dolan is going to be retiring one of the biggest Catholic figures that we have, really the spokesman for the church in the U.S., one of the great preachers we've had since Fulton J. Sheen, he's going to be celebrating his 76th birthday, and his birthday present is going to be a retirement, which I'm confident is going to be super fruitful. But I wrote a month ago, beautiful tribute. Yeah, about two months ago now, what I hope was a beautiful tribute to Cardinal Dolan, talking about 12 ways that he lived out his faith in his apostolic identity in service of the church, not just in New York, but throughout the country. And, we've all been blessed by his joyful discipleship. And he was able to articulate our faith in bite sized portions so that everybody would be able to see its beauty. And so we're so grateful for his service. We wish him a happy birthday. Archbishop Hicks is coming from Joliet, Illinois, where he's been the bishop for six years. Eight years actually. Sorry. And prior to that, he was an auxiliary in Chicago and the vicar general. So he's got a lot of experience already running things. He's very youthful. Most people looking at him would never guess. He's 59. Some might confuse him still of being in his 40s because he's youthful and he's going to bring that energy. When he was debuted in, New York the day of his press conference, I had the chance to have a luncheon with him and Cardinal Dolan and a handful of other priests, and he was super excited to be coming to New York. He knows the challenges. He says part of me is a little bit afraid of some of those, but I know that God, who's always helped me, will help me there. He said he had just come from visiting the crypt, where one day he'll be buried, and so he knows what the end is in mind. And if you kind of want to get to know him. He wrote one pastoral letter when he was out in Joliet, and the pastoral letter was on making disciples. And for me, as the national director of the mission societies, that really impressed me because he focused on Jesus, his great commission, that he gives us all. He says, go to all nations, making disciples, teaching them everything that I've commanded you. And he said, go make disciples. We often focus on the go part, but he says, what does it mean to make a disciple? We can't force somebody to become a disciple. But what's involved in making a disciple? And he said in his beautiful pastoral letter, it involves first being made a disciple, allowing Jesus's teaching to really impact the deepest parts of who we are, so that our first identification is, of course, as a follower of Jesus. And once you have been made a disciple by allowing the seeds of the gospel truly to evangelize us at the depth God wants, then we are capable of showing the fruits of how Jesus changes our lives for the better, and we're capable of not just bringing words to people, but bringing a genuine witness of the impact Jesus likewise wants to make for the better with others. And so it was at parts supremely eloquent, focusing on the word make and be made. And, you know, he's going to bring that, obviously, to New York, the clarity with which he teaches that Midwestern sincerity with which he just does everything in his life. And so these changes don't happen all the all the time. It was 17 years ago that Cardinal Dolan was here for me as a as a priest, resident in the archdiocese in New York, even though I'm often on the road, it always matters to me at that part of the mass in which we pray for our Pope and we pray for the bishop. And it's it's a major change when we have to change the pope's name. And it takes a while, actually. I mean, still, I'm tempted every once in a while if I'm somewhat on autopilot to say Francis. Sometimes even Benedict, sometimes even John Paul the second was Pope. What you're doing 26 years ago because it deeply impacts us that prayer. But you say the Pope's name no matter where you are on the planet, but the the bishop's name. Cardinal Dolan was my rector at the Northern American College in Rome. He was the one who approved me for holy order. He was the one who had a great influence by his example and the type of priest I aspired to be. And it's always been a great joy for me in my 11 years in the archdiocese in New York, to be able to mention the name Timothy, because I knew him well for three decades. I'm mourning a little bit. I have to be blunt with you, Betsy, that I'm no longer, as of Friday, going to be saying, Timothy, that that's going to be over. It's now going to be Ronald for Archbishop Ron Hicks. And so I'm mourning that in the same way that in Boston, when I ever I would celebrate there and I was able to mention Sean O'Malley, who was the bishop ordained me, there was always something precious and special. So that's going to be the big change coming, this Friday for me, but for the church in New York and the church in the United States, because of the providence of Saint Patrick's Cathedral and the archdiocese in New York, it's going to be a change for us all. But thanks be to God, Pope Leo has given us a good successor to the great Tim Dolan. |
| Betsy | Well, he he leaves some pretty big shoes for somebody else to step into. One of the things that Archbishop Designate Hix brings to the table is his fluency in Spanish. And at this time, with all the turmoil with immigration, how do you see him bringing his particular gifts to your diocese? |
| Msgr Landry | So he was for five years in charge of an orphanage, in El Salvador. And a previous is, gap year had worked in Mexico at an, similar orphanage. He has a sensitivity to the issues, especially of Latin American Catholics coming in. He's going to be someone who I hope is going to help bridge the gap. You know, everybody sort of expects that if you're a Latino bishop, you're probably going to side with immigrants. Archbishop Hicks is from Chicago, Illinois. He's got Polish roots. He's got some Irish roots. He's you know, so he's as American as baseball, an apple pie. And for him to be able to stress these types of things, I hope, is going to help the non-Latino community appreciate the extraordinary gifts that Latino Catholics bring, that we will recognize them as true brothers and sisters, and that we will treat them the way we would treat our brothers and sisters. And I can't believe we would want any of our brothers and sisters treated like many of those in Minneapolis, Saint Paul are being treated by ice, or immediately rounded up and sent to a detention center in states far away, or shipped to a country far away from a country of origin. That type of stuff is beneath us as Americans, beneath us, as Christians. And I hope that he's, Archbishop Hicks will be a prophetic voice in that. But he's got much more than just one issue. And, he's going to be able to bring the gospel to Latino Catholics in their own language, just like he's going to be able to bring the gospel to all of us. Likewise in. |
| Betsy | English. Well, we wish Cardinal Dolan the best in his retirement, and he will look forward to all the new reports you'll bring us about your new shepherd in New York. Thank you. My pleasure. |
| Msgr Landry | God bless you. |
| Betsy | Welcome to conversations with consequences on EWTN radio. |
| Ashley/Mary | I'm your hostess, Mary Fiorito. |
| Betsy | And I'm Betsy Fentress, and we are delighted to have with us today His Excellency. |
| Ashley/Mary | Bishop Michael Burbidge of the Diocese of. |
| Betsy | Arlington. And so there's so much to talk about. And, Your Excellency, thank you so much. |
| Ashley/Mary | For taking the time to join us today. |
| Bishop Michael Burbige | Thank you Mary. Thank you. Betsy. As you said, this is a beautiful, time in the life of our church. |
| Ashley/Mary | I understand that you spent that day with Catholic school students praying the rosary with them. |
| Betsy | Can you tell us a little bit about that experience? |
| Bishop Michael Burbige | What a beautiful experience. We know that, Pope Leo has asked for all of us, throughout this month to pray the rosary with a specific intention. With the intention of peace. Peace in our world, especially in these turbulent times, but also peace in our own country and our own hearts. And, so we gathered with our the students of our cathedral school. We were outside and, it was so wonderful to see our young children with their rosaries, praying with such devotion, such simple joy, childlike faith. And I was just inspired, to pray with them, and that's all I did. I did I did not leave the rosary. I just prayed with them. And it was a very, powerful moment and, encourage all of us to embrace that. Invitation Pope Leo has extended to us. |
| Betsy | Can you tell us about the rosary in your life, maybe any memories from childhood or the importance of any novenas that have been particularly moving to you? |
| Bishop Michael Burbige | Yeah, I guess I it goes back to my, grandmother, most likely, who pray the rosary. I think 3 or 4, maybe five times a day. She just loved, praying the rosary. And. Yeah, that's something that as a child, you just cannot, ever forget. And you knew there was something special there. So, you know, along with my grandmother, certainly my own family in Catholic school really learned the importance of turning to Mary as one of the special gift her son gave us from the cross. His mother to be our mother. Someone who accompanies you, is your friend someone who protects you. So I've always had that sense of, you know, Mary being walking side by side with us and to honor her, to meditate upon what her son has done for us, has continue to be a great joy and is so essential in the life of every priest, especially, because she's the mother priest to. And, we need her powerful intercession. |
| Betsy | The bishop. What was your vocation journey? |
| Msgr Landry | Did the rosary play a part in your discernment? |
| Bishop Michael Burbige | I would say probably not in a, significant way until I actually entered the seminary and it became, you know, as you develop your prayer life in your spiritual life and those disciplines that are so essential in a life of formation, which is, you know, ongoing, it doesn't stop when you're ordained. I just began to realize, more importantly, of how this is a, a tool, a, in a sense, I say this in, in a beautiful way, a weapon, against the evils, in the forces against us. So, I grew I think the seminary was a beautiful time for me to grow, in my devotion and my love for for the Blessed Mother. |
| Betsy | A lot of life issues surrounding the church, and especially in Virginia. Right now, you have a law that's being considered. There's serious concern. You wrote about it in a letter, and you wrote that there is a threat in the Commonwealth of Virginia, a proposed amendment to enshrine abortion into our Commonwealth's constitution. What should the faithful know about this? And what are you doing in your diocese to combat this? |
| Bishop Michael Burbige | Yes, as you know, when, the overturning of Roe versus Wade was a moment of celebration and after many years of so many people, witnessing on behalf of life, praying on behalf of life, we you know, that decision was celebrated, but as I mentioned only for a moment, because actually, it was then that the real work is beginning just in a new way. Now that it goes back to the States. And we had we know that ballot initiatives have already reached some states where, you know, we we suffered defeat after even though bishops worked so hard to defeat the amendment, to protect life. But the opposition is fierce. And those kind of pushing forth this initiative are spending lots of money to, speak on truths and to, and, and, influence people, with not telling the whole story and not telling what is true. And so I've, you know, been speaking with other bishops who have gone through this experience. And, you know, the one lesson that I've learned is that don't wait, start way ahead of time. And so, a proposed amendment to enshrine abortion in our Commonwealth's constitution, is not yet on the ballot. The outcome of this fall, elections will determine whether it's, advances or is halted. So we're we're trying to remind people here what's at stake with these elections, because this will determine in many ways whether this amendment goes forward, or not. If adopted, the amendment would in and embed in our state constitution put it right to abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, with no age limits, all nine months, with no age amendments. And although Virginia's law is already very permissive, it currently contains some modest, protections. Parental consent is required. Partial birth abortion is prohibited. Individuals and health care facilities cannot be forced to participate in abortion, and taxpayer funding of abortions limit this would all change. This would all change, if the amendment is ratified. So the proposed amendment would likely make it impossible for the general Assembly, to pass similar protective laws in the future. And moreover, each of those few modest protections that I just mentioned would severely, be be jeopardized. And so we see that there is just so much at stake. And so we're trying to bring this heightened awareness before this, the upcoming elections, knowing how they will kind of determine the path of this amendment. And, you know, if it does move forward, that we got to get to work, in conveying, clearly, what this amendment is all about and what it would do, how it would harm women, how it would harm children, how would attack life. And it just cannot be about but like I mentioned, the opposition is fierce. And so it will it will take a lot of work. |
| Betsy | Bishop. It's been just a delight to have you on our show. And we thank you so much for joining us to learn more about Bishop Burbidge, please visit Arlington dioceses.org. Welcome to conversations with consequences. Now on EWTN radio. I'm your host, Betty Fentress. |
| Ashley | And I'm Ashley. |
| Betsy | McGuire. And we're happy to have Dr. Greg Popcak with us today. A familiar voice to EWTN with his long running show, More to Life, that he co-hosts with his wife, Lisa. He's a Catholic psychologist. And, Greg, we really want to have you on to give some to comment on the recent reports of mental health, well-being and the decline, especially amidst Catholics. Thanks for making time for us today. Well, thanks. |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | For having me. |
| Betsy | So just last week, Bishop Michael Burbidge of Arlington, Virginia, issued a pastoral letter on mental health entitled The Divine Physician and a Christian Approach to Mental Health and Well-Being. So he was really voicing concerns about youth. But what do you see as this trend kind of spiking, especially post-Covid? But or has it been going on for a long time? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | No, it's been going on for a long time. I think it has gotten. It did get worse during Covid, for sure. And I do think that there are some people who are still struggling to recover from that. And I think that what both Bishop Burbidge, his letter and the study that you published that was done by Catholic TV, that looked at the extent of the mental health landscape in the, in the church, point to the fact that mental health problems are actually very, very common. Even people of faith. And that's not something for us to be ashamed of. It's something for us to recognize and and to acknowledge that God wants to heal. But in order to do that, we need to get appropriate help. And so, you know, I think this is actually a really helpful development, both the Bishop Burbidge letter and the research that we're seeing. Because this is something I think we need to talk about more as a church. |
| Ashley | I recently read an article that suggested that, basically over therapies, there's there's too much therapy and that some of well, actually much of the therapy that's out there, is counterproductive, that it's actually reinforcing a negative thinking, which, you know, I think requires us to step back and sort of tease out what, you know, what therapy is helpful, helpful, and and is there actually, you know, some of what's out there, potentially negative or harmful or reinforcing negative stereotypes. Yeah. |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | Well, so I mean, I think that it's fair to say that, I think we have a tendency to over diagnose things. Not just professionals. I mean, you know, on TikTok or Instagram, you know, all of a sudden, you know, everybody knows somebody with narcissistic personality disorder. You know, all of a sudden everybody has autism. You know, and and that's not necessarily true. Those are very real issues. And they deserve to have attention brought to them, but they're not quite as common as most of us think. And a lot of times we throw those labels around in conversation. You know, diagnosing our parent or, you know, our spouse, as a way of sort of saying, no, I don't have to deal with them because they have they have a label. So I think that there can be that sense of an over therapist culture. And I think that's something to watch out for. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are real problems, though, that need to be addressed. And and it's good to eliminate the stigma of seeking help when we need it. But to speak to your second point. I one thing that people don't appreciate is that there's no such thing as a values free counselor, and every counselor is really representing their vision of what the human person should look like and how the human person flourishes. And so the counselor you're working with is really trying to move you in the direction of what they believe. A healthy human being would look like and what healthy relationships should look like. And so that's where their values are going to come into play. So that's why I think it's especially important for Catholics in particular to work with professionals who are really very well schooled in the Catholic vision of the person and the Catholic vision of relationship, and not just their own idea of what the Catholic version of those things are, but but really have gotten specific training in what does that look like? And then how can I help my Catholic client? Live out that vision in their own life and relationships? |
| Betsy | So back to this survey with Catholic TV. One of the, things pointed out in the article that was that ran in the National Catholic Register. It says most alarming and alarming of all, one third of survey respondents have wrestled with thoughts of self-harm in the past two weeks. Now this is up. The survey had 1561 adult Catholics, but even among weekly mass attendees, a significant share carry these same burdens. Do you find that that really alarming? Like the article says, is this a real uptick trend for you? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | No, I think I think it is true. And I you know, I think it's important to understand that the phrase self-harm. That doesn't necessarily mean that a third of Catholics have thought about committing suicide in the past. You know, with a few more. Okay. But but it does mean that engaging in destructive behaviors, whether that's addictions, or other compulsive behaviors, as well as, actual self-harm, cutting or even suicidal thoughts. So it's a big category, but it basically applies to the idea of I'm, I, you know, I'm frustrated, I'm angry, I'm lonely. I'm stressed, and I'm taking it out on myself in some way. And I think we all do that to some degree. But and some of us really struggle with that even more acutely than others. So I'm not surprised by that number. |
| Ashley | On that topic. I was stunned when I brought one of my kids. I'm a mom of five, and two of them are adolescents, and I, noticed the questionnaire that was going to be given at my daughter's next visit. It was sitting out for, you know, another parent coming through, and one of the questions on there, asked, have you thought about harming yourself, suicidal thoughts, things that I don't, concepts that I don't even think are in my child's mind. At least I hope not. And I did a little more probing and learned that that's become kind of the standard approach in medicine. Pediatric medicine is to screen for that, probably because as we're discussing, there is an epidemic of this. But what's your advice to parents who are trying to navigate this? And protect their children's innocence and not have concepts that are not psychologically appropriate for, you know, a happy 12 year old? While also making sure that, you know, there they have their finger on the pulse of their child's emotional well-being. |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | You know, I certainly appreciate, you know, your concern there. I think, though, that it is important to ask those questions. I mean, I just personally share. I mean, I, I was suicidal when I was in sixth grade. You know, I was I went to Catholic school. I have a very deep spiritual life, but I, I was mercilessly bullied, by my classmates. I, I really couldn't. I just didn't. I hated going to school. It was it was painful. And I really thought about hurting myself. And that was probably from sixth through eighth grade. And so, so the kids as young as ten, 11, 12 are thinking about these things. And they're their friends are talking about these things. And so it's it's sad and it's scary. But I, I think it's a mistake to think that that our kids aren't aware of it or haven't thought about these kids. And so asking those questions, you know, how how are you handling these things? You know, have you ever thought about hurting yourself? Or, you know, if you ever have those kinds of feelings, you know, we can talk about that. Because that that doesn't mean that you're bad or that you're broken, or it just means that you're having a hard time and you don't know what to do about it. So I want you to know that that's something that we can discuss together. And so, you know, it's not something that we want to. Yeah, a daily conversation about. But I think that if we see our kids struggling, we shouldn't assume that it's not a possibility that would be going there. |
| Betsy | So you sharing your story, calls to mind Bishop James Conley of Lincoln, Nebraska, who spoke very candidly about his own experience. And also, this was raised by Bishop John Dolan of Phoenix, where he lost, he lost three siblings to suicide. Do you think that these leaders in the church coming forward has an effect on people seeking out people like you to, to deal with the wounds and the traumas that they've had related to this? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | I do hope so. I mean, I think that that as Catholics, we can fall into the trap of sort of believing that, you know, if we were really faithful or if we just prayed a little harder that that maybe we we shouldn't have to deal with these things, or that the fact that we are dealing with these things means that somehow we've failed God or failed in our spiritual journey. And the thing that I like to try to tell callers to a radio program or even the clients that we work with through Catholic counselors, dot com, is that, you know, Saint Thomas Aquinas said grace builds on nature, right? So if you think about yourself as a car, for instance, when we pray, when we engage in spiritual practices, when we participate in the sacraments, that's like putting gas in the tank. And in fact, you know, the the high octane. Right? The best fuel possible is going into our tank. But if we've got a full tank of gas and four flat tires, we ain't going nowhere. You know, if we got to if we have a full tank of gas and our and our engine block is cracked and we're still not going anywhere. Right. So grace builds on nature. So we need to make sure that our nature is as healthy as it can be. So grace can build on that. And so when you know, the bishops come forward and share their own stories, and encourage their flocks to recognize, emotional and relational and other mental health struggles, and encourage them to get help. I hope it helps us overcome this idea that somehow emotional struggles or relational struggles are a sign of my spiritual failing. It's not that at all. It's really a sign that God wants to heal us. You know, he's bringing these things to light in our own hearts and in the church because he's saying, you know, it's the divine position to go back to the pastoral letter, the divine Physician has a treatment plan. And not enough of his children are using it. You know, another level of us are being patients. So it's time for us to recognize that there is a crisis. There are problems. And and there is a treatment plan for that for the divine physician has for us. And part of that includes seeking good, competent, faith integrated mental health services. |
| Ashley | I was struck by a recent report that came out about American priests, and most of the report was talking about kind of a return to Orthodoxy, but there was something that stood out to me, which was that priests are recording a higher level of loneliness, and I don't know why that surprised me, because, you know, it was a good reminder to me that priests are people, too. To your point that, you know, just because you're going to mass regularly doesn't mean that you're immune to the same social, ills and ailments that are that are troubling, everybody. But, you know, on a more positive note, what are some of the ways that religion can come alongside, modern psychology and psych psychiatry to help people? I mean, I'm struck by the fact that so much of modern psychology is mirrors a lot of what religion has been doing for so long contemplative prayer, you know, rote repetition. But what are some of the positive ways that religion reinforces the good that psychology and psychiatry? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | Well, I mean, and I will say, you know, even though these struggles were very common, other studies have shown, for example, that the people of faith are significantly less likely to experience a significant, serious mental health crisis. And when we do, we are significantly more likely to recover more quickly than people without a faith life. And part of that is, well, certainly because of race. But but on a practical level, part of that is the community and support that we can enjoy from, from these relationships where we're checking in with each other at least weekly. And people notice if we're not there and wonder, hey, where are they, where they go, you know, are you okay? You know, and then and also the, the practices that, that allow us to reflect, to focus on growth as opposed to just pushing through the day, you know, we're about to enter into the season of lent. You know, this is a it's a time where we can reflect on where am I struggling? Where do I need to grow, how? What do I need to do to get there? Do I need help? It's it's, you know, we have built into our liturgical cycle a lot of really healthy practices that that encourage, mental health and relationship health. And, you know, in our own work. You know, one of the things that we try to do at Catholic counselors.com is, is really bring Catholic theology and spirituality into the work that we do with our clients. So, you know, the Judeo Christian tradition has a 4000 year old conversation about what human flourishing looks like. And it's it's a global conversation across, across generations. Right. You can't you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't find enough money, enough funding to do a study like that. You know, there's there's a lot of wisdom in that comes out of that 4000 year old conversation about what does it mean to flourish as a human person and what is God's plan for human beings and relationships. And so when we can draw on that tradition, as well as contemporary insights from counseling psychology, I think that we can really serve our clients much, much more effectively in a much more holistic way than than if you were just approaching it from either either perspective. |
| Betsy | Do you find that because Catholics have the sacrament of confession, that people get confused on which things are appropriate to bring into the confessional, versus they need somebody like you to help them sort through what they're going through? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | Yeah, I think priest, by and large, do a good job. In helping to clarify that if, if, if confess, you know, a confessor is using, you know, a penitent. Excuse me, is using confession inappropriately in some way, I do think that sometimes, when priests kind of, well, meaningfully try to give advice in the confessional, it can it can fall flat because they don't have enough of the background to really understand what this person, that what the penitent actually needs. And that can be, I think, a little confusing and blurring the lines. But but you know, that that's more a matter of just becoming more pastorally competent, you know? But yeah, I think that the people do struggle with that, because we, we recognize, for example, that that counseling involves talking to somebody about my problems. Right. So confession how's that different from counseling or. I talked to my pastor about my problem. How is that different from counseling? And the answer is that the counseling is really about giving skills and teaching skills and walking with that person while they learn to, to do the skills. Right. And so where we, we go to confession to receive God's forgiveness for the things that we've done. But of course, the temporal consequences of those sins and struggles remain, and those temporal consequences are how those struggles play out in our life and our relationships and the choices that we make and the way we treat others, the struggle we have to love effectively, ourselves and others. And if we find that we are having a consistent problem overcoming those struggles, that's when it's helpful to get some kind of practical help where we're not just talking about those problems, but really learning some new skills. And of course, there are different people who that offer those kinds of resources, but, you know, but but, but recognizing that we need that is a is an important first step. |
| Ashley | Well, speaking of practical skills, I don't think anybody would deny that. As we head into National Marriage Week that many married couples are desperately seeking practical skills and tools, and that marriages are really under extraordinary strain today. What? And you, you serve you and your wife serve, if I'm correct, as, advisers to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops on their advisory board for Marriage and Family Ministry, where would you direct Catholic couples that are looking for, quality resources to help them strengthen their marriages? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | So the USCCB has what played for your marriage.org, that has a lot of great resources and a lot of great places to have conversations about, you know, getting good information for marriage. So I really do encourage listeners to go to that website, for your marriage.org. You know, of course, Catholic counselors, in addition to the counseling services that we offer, we have many books on marriage and and Catholic. The Catholic vision of the person. We actually, we have another resource. So they really encourage people to, to learn more about. It's called the Catholic Home App and it's spelled H0. And it stands for Households on Mission and through the we. The app is based on research that we did through Georgetown University that looked at couples and families who were, unusually close, and all Catholic couples and families who were closer than most others and also successfully raise all their kids to a faithful adulthood. And we identified 12 habits that that those couples and families had in common. So we built the Catholic Home app, and that's Catholic Home Center for households and mission that to to teach and support couples and families and living those habits out in their relationship. So we offer coaching. So our whole team of pastoral counselors and coaches is on the app every day interacting with subscribers and helping them learn these 12 habits and practices habits in their marriage and family lives. And then we're also got a ton of creative resources like monthly downloadable activities for for parents and kids to do, exclusive podcast content, a monthly live Q&A with Lisa and myself and lots of other resources. Just a really help, folks, live out these habits. And so what's nice about it is it's, it's a I like to see the 12 habits are kind of the building blocks of what a domestic church looks like. It's not so. So the domestic church isn't just a concept, it's it's a it's a real practical thing. And we can see, how our family is becoming that domestic church as we're cooperating with Grace to live out these 12 habits. And so the app is really for for couples and families as well. |
| Betsy | We just have about a minute left. And I wanted to ask, we've talked a lot about counseling, like if we personally needed it, if we see someone else struggling. What are some of the most effective ways to help people recognize that what they're going through, they're going to need somebody alongside them to help them? |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing we want to do is, is empathize and come alongside. And so, you know, so what is going on, you know, help me understand letting them know that it's safe to talk to you about it, that you're not going to lecture them, you're not going to kind of lead, don't make them into a project. Right. If you see we we see the person having problems, we immediately want to, hey, have you tried this? How about doing that and have a call these people. And that's not really where we want to start. You know, start by truly trying to listen to where they're at and what they're going through. And if they are struggling to make it work on their own, then you can say, you know what? But this this has really been helpful for me. I'm you take a look at this book or let me suggest this, this counselor or, you know, be there with the resources. But really empathize and then kind of recommending from there. |
| Betsy | Well, thank you so much for all your great advice, doctor. Greg. |
| Dr. Greg Popcak | Patrick, thank you for having me. |
| Betsy | Find out more about Doctor Greg Pop, check his show on EWTN and his many books by visiting Catholic Homecoming and by visiting Catholic counselors. Dot com. Visit the Catholic Association. Org to follow everything we do in radio, TV, print, online and in our local community. |