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Episode Description
Filmmaker John Scheinfeld discusses his documentary, Baseball: Beyond Belief, an upcoming film based on the book Baseball as a Road to God. The film explores parallels between baseball and religion, including tradition, shared hope, and ways the game brings people together as a community. It also highlights moments in sports that feel almost miraculous, explores the role of team chaplains, and encourages people to slow down for spiritual reflection to notice deeper meaning in life.
Kate Ashbrook, founder of the nonprofit, A Purposeful Day, joins to discuss the organization which supports adults with Down syndrome and intellectual disabilities. Kate emphasizes the importance of recognizing the dignity and capabilities of people with disabilities. She also highlights challenges families face, including employment barriers, and the loneliness many adults with disabilities face.
Monsignor Roger Landry reminds us that even though Lent is a time of fasting, several major feast days occur that are meant to be celebrated with joy. These include Saint Patrick’s Day, remembering a missionary who converted Ireland. Also Saint Joseph, honored as the protector of the Holy Family and model of obedience. And the Annunciation, commemorating the moment the angel Gabriel brought Mary the message that she would bear Jesus, marking the beginning of the Incarnation.
Catch the show every Saturday at 7amET/5pmET on EWTN radio!
And don’t forget to subscribe to TCA’s daily media roundup for smart Catholic news and commentary delivered straight to your inbox.
Bios
John Scheinfeld is a critically acclaimed documentary filmmaker, an Emmy, Grammy, and two time Writers Guild nominee, with work ranging from pop culture to politics, sports and religion. He has many film credits to his name based on individuals with wide notoriety, including Bob Hope, Gary Marshall, Herb Alpert, Sergio Mendes, John Coltrane, John Lennon, and many others. Scheinfeld has also written, produced, or directed projects about pop culture legends including the Bee Gees, Nat ‘King’ Cole, Bing Crosby, Dean Martin, the Marx Brothers, Frank Sinatra and more. His current film, Baseball: Beyond Belief, an inspirational account exploring the intersection of faith and the sport, will be released in late March. Scheinfeld received a B.A. in Communications and Sociology from Oberlin College and holds an M.F.A. in Radio/Television/Film from Northwestern University.
Kate Ashbrook is the President and Founder of A Purposeful Day, a non-profit organization that supports adults with Down syndrome and other intellectual disabilities. She is the mother of three daughters, including one with Down Syndrome. On the heels of her career as a speech-language pathologist working primarily in neuro and medical rehabilitation, Kate sought to use her professional skills and personal experience to create a community for her daughter and others facing similar challenges. She lives in the Washington, DC area with her husband and three girls.
Monsignor Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the UN in New York. In 2024, he was appointed National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA by Pope Francis. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and served as executive editor for the weekly newspaper of the Diocese of Fall River. He is the author of the book, Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God, and leads pilgrimages to Rome, the Holy Land, and other sacred destinations. He was an on-site commentator for EWTN’s coverage of the 2013 papal conclave that elected Pope Francis. He is national chaplain for Catholic Voices USA and New York Chaplain for the Leonine Forum. Father Landry traversed the 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage in 2024, which coincided with his 25th year in the priesthood.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 361 Transcript
| Ashley | Welcome back to conversations with consequences here on EWTN radio. On your host is Ashley McGuire, and we are in the midst of baseball season at the McGuire household. So I'm very excited to talk to our next guest about a brand new film he has created called Baseball Beyond Belief. The movie explores the compelling depths of how baseball and faith intertwine in powerful and surprising ways, and we are excited to have John Shine filled with us today. He is the writer, producer, and director of this movie. Welcome to the show, John. |
| John Scheinfeld | Thanks for having me, Ashley. Happy to be here. |
| Ashley | So as I mentioned, we are a baseball family. I'm a baseball mom. I have two boys who play travel ball and I'm married to a very rabid Mets fan. So I have learned to really love the sport. And gosh, I can't think of anything that is more exciting to me than combining the best sport in America with faith and exploring the ways that those two really parallel each other, mirror each other. So I understand the movie is based on the New York Times bestselling book baseball as a Road to God by John Sexton. |
| John Scheinfeld | John's book came out in 2013 and, as you mentioned, became a New York Times bestseller. And it combined, two things that you don't really connect in any significant way religion and baseball. And, I done a film back in 2008 about, Chicago's love affair with the Chicago Cubs and I had worked with a number of the people at, Major League Baseball, and we were looking for a new project that we might do, and it took many years. But, one day in 2019, I got a call from, Nick Trotta at Major League Baseball who said, I'm going to send you this book. And I'm wondering if you think there's a documentary in it. And, I read the book, and I was absolutely fascinated by it. As I say, combine two things that I would not have thought is possible to combine, but it raised some really thoughtful, smart, fun and entertaining, issues about both subjects. And I was just thinking this would make a great, uplifting, inspiring film. And that's what really got me interested. We, we've been working on it for for a few years. We got, sidetracked by Covid and some other issues, but I'm just, really proud of this picture and happy that it's finally coming out. |
| Ashley | We have one of those posters in our house which has every major league stadium, and it comes with the sticker. And my husband is, one by one taking one of my sons. It's funny. Now, now my next son is also become a big baseball fan. So I think the trips are going to start expanding, but slowly checking off each major league stadium. And I loved in the movie where it talks about stadiums is like cathedrals, but talk a little bit about that parallel of like sacred spaces and both in religion and what would stadiums and mean to sports fans as. |
| John Scheinfeld | Much as people will go to church or temple or synagogue to, explore their faith and to experience their traditions. The same is true when you go to your favorite ballpark, whether it's, the Mets park or, I'm a Cubs fan, so it's Wrigley. Or if you're a Boston Red Sox fan, it's Fenway. These parks all have such great traditions, and there's a distinct feeling when you enter the ballpark. And I think it it, welcomes you into this tradition. In the case of baseball, that's what the ballparks do. And so I think that's really fascinating. But you talk about your husband being such a devout fan and and your kids playing dad. I'm sure you see this where as you're rooting for your team, you have faith in them, but yet you will have doubt that they're actually going to win this game. Or the pitcher is going to strike out the batter that he needs to strike out, or they're going to make the big play in the outfield. There are rituals. There's a sense of community. You can be at a ball game, and there will be a miracle in real time. Somebody's making a terrific defensive play or a great hit. So these are some of the hallmarks of of both religion and baseball. And that's what fascinated us in this film. Yeah. |
| Ashley | Talk about miracles. I, I loved the, the Kirk Gibson story feature feels almost like a supernatural miracle to baseball fans. |
| John Scheinfeld | Absolutely. It was, the World Series, and it was just not anything that the Dodgers were going to win. They were behind. It was the bottom of the ninth. They bring up to bat Kirk Gibson, who is hobbling on one leg, can barely walk, can barely, have to bat. And yet they send him out there. What we were able to do in the film mostly when you see highlights of this game, you just see the, the, homerun that he hits that wins the game for the Dodgers. But what we were able to do, because we had access, to the Major League Baseball Archive. So we got to show you the few plays that, the few, pitches that led up to that homerun. And what you see is this guys really struggling. Yeah, he can barely hit it. He can't really run, up to to first base. The announcers are telling us that he's been struggling with this for for days, and, wasn't even going to, suit up for this game. And yet he does, and he hits this, I would call it the the Immaculate Conception of home runs. In terms of, you didn't expect it to happen, but yet there it is. They win the game and it qualifies, I guess in baseball sense is a miracle. |
| Ashley | One thing I was surprised to see in the movie were some interviews with actual chaplains, and I had no idea there was such a thing as team chaplains and how long has it been a part of baseball? |
| John Scheinfeld | I can't really answer that question. Actually, I don't know. About, every team, but there are a number of chaplains, in Major League Baseball, we interviewed Willie Alfonso, who is the chaplain for the New York Yankees, and his job is to be a spiritual advisor to the players, as they need it. But also, he, will have a prayer service before the game, both for the home team and the visiting team. And just kind of be there if they need to talk about something. Willie is a fascinating character who, experienced his own redemption in life. He had, gone down a very bad path in terms of drug addiction. And he was homeless for a while. And, by putting his faith in God, he turned his life around. And now he is he is chaplain to one of the, primary, franchises in Major League Baseball. And, as he said to me in the interview, he said, sometimes it's better not to open up your mouth. Sometimes it's better just to listen. And that's, I think, how he views his job as the chaplain is to listen to the people that come to talk to him, see what's on their mind, and then if they ask or if he feels, that he can offer something important, he will say so, like you, I did not know this was a job in Major League Baseball, but here it is. And, I'm glad we could include him in our film. Fascinating character. |
| Ashley | Talk about the two priests you feature. Who who go to baseball games. The believe they were Franciscans. And they made an interesting comment about how, you know, there used to be this thing called street preaching, and preachers and priests would go into the street, but they said, that's not really where people gather anymore. And and they tend to gather in, in sports events and talk a little bit about their ministry. They were really fun. |
| John Scheinfeld | Yeah, really fascinating guys. Father Casey and Father Tito, Franciscans, as you mentioned, they look, depending what your age and frame of reference is, they dress and they look either like Friar Tuck out of the Robin Hood movies, or they look like they're right out of a Star Wars film. And, but they're young guys who love baseball, and, they decided that, yes, if they couldn't go out into the town square and preach the gospel, that they thought they would go to places where where people do gather. And as baseball fans, they said, let's go to every baseball park in America. And so one summer they went out to all 32 ballparks. And, they were proselytizing in the sense of getting in people's faces and talking. They really just made themselves available. And because of the way they look in these robes, people would come up to them and said, well, what are you? And sometimes they would joke, well, may the force be with you. We're Jedi. And, and that would lead to some other kind of conversation. But, a lot of times they would talk baseball and, a lot of times they would actually talk, more spiritual matters. They, they talk about a gentleman that came up to them. And I was just dealing with the passing of a parent from cancer and didn't quite know how to deal with it, and they ended up talking about it. And, the friars gave him some comfort. And so I thought, again, this was a perfect way to show this intersection of baseball and faith. You have these two young friars who are baseball fans. Not only do they, merge the two subjects in their own lives, but by, going to the 32 ballparks, they then, can, combine this and other people's lives as well. |
| Ashley | So I've thought about writing about this because it has started to feel like going to a baseball game is almost not family friendly because the expense, the difficulty, even sometimes some of the music, and yet it's it's still such a wonderful rite of passage away, especially for fathers and sons to bond. But can you talk a little bit. |
| John Scheinfeld | About the. |
| Ashley | Role of, of baseball in, in, in family life and sort of forging these traditions with, with fathers and sons and even sometimes the kind of friendly inter family rivalries with teams and things like that. |
| John Scheinfeld | Well, I cannot tell you how many people we talked to that all had a similar experience where as a child, their father took them to a game or introduced them to baseball on television and, and took out a scorecard and showed their, son how to score a game for nine innings. And, it's a little bit like religion, in a way. Also, where as a child you don't choose whether you're going to have faith, you don't choose what your faith is going to be. You are raised in a tradition, of your parents, and much the same for, for baseball. If if, the father is a Yankee fan, you are likely to be a Yankee fan. We have a couple of examples that we talk about, in the film about conversion, where you're, much like some people will convert from one faith to another. Some people may also convert, from rooting for one team and then start rooting for another. We have a lovely touching, emotional story of, John Sexton, who wrote the book, who, have been raised a Brooklyn Dodger fan, and the Yankees were the, you'll pardon the expression, the anti-Christ for him. And, but as he grew up, his son, decided that he was going to root for the Yankees. And so here was a father, who had a decision to make, and I going to, try to force my son to root for the Dodgers, as I always have since I was a kid. Or am I going to, support him in his faith in the Yankees? And he decided he would convert to being a Yankee fan. But I think, it's very much, the traditions of baseball and the traditions of faith that the parents and children can share together. And we see this in, multiple ways in our film. |
| Ashley | The film talks a lot about how baseball mirrors religion. And we've talked a little bit about this, but give you a few more examples. For example, you referred in the film to the World Series as the High Holy Days, or you talk about some of these, these moments in a baseball game that are almost like liturgical, like the national anthem. But what are some of the other ways that, a baseball game and the baseball season mirrors faith and religion and specifically specific practices and things like that. |
| John Scheinfeld | Where we can talk about sacred times of the year. So, depending on on what your faith is, you you have Christmas, you have Easter, you, you have, Hanukkah, whatever it may be. But in baseball, it's, opening day, is is a sacred time of the year for baseball fans of all teams, sacred, I think because, everyone is starting out with a fresh start. You're zero zero, and the World Series, is ahead of you at some point. And that's the other, sacred time of the year. The World Series. That means so much to baseball fans and baseball players. We have rituals. If you think about it, if you go to church, if you go to temple, there are rituals with prayers and psalms and, people, expressing their faith in different ways. And the same thing is true when you go to a, a baseball park, you see the rituals of the players sometimes, we saw it. We have some film, in the, in, in our picture about people who will jump over the third base line because it's a tradition. Somehow they feel they're going to play better if they do that. There are also rituals of they will wear the same socks for one game after another because they keep winning and they think it's the lucky socks that do that. So rituals can, can, can play in it. I think also a great sense of community. I think if you go to the ballpark and you're rooting for your team, it doesn't matter what age you are, doesn't matter what sex you are, doesn't matter what race you are. It doesn't matter what your politics are. You are all in this space to root for your team. And that gives a real sense of community, a sense of belonging. And, I think that is true. Also, when you go to church or temple, synagogue where you are, with people who believe in the same principles and traditions that you do, and you are then in a community of like minded people. So those are some other ways that do that. We also talk about, saints and sinners, if you think about it, in in religion, there are there are saints, there are sinners that you learn about in the history of your faith. And the same is true in baseball. You have saints like Jackie Robinson, like, Roberto Clemente, like Ernie Banks, and then you have sinners like, Pete Rose and Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa. And so those are some other kinds of similarities. I think the other thing, Ashley, that that we talk about in the film and it's really sort of a subtext of our film, which is if you go to the ballpark, there's a lot more going on than just the pitcher pitching to the batter. That's what you tend to watch. But there's so much more. And if you slow down and you watch everything that's going on around you, you're going to enhance your experience. Whether it's how they set up to play defense, whether it's signals that the manager is giving to the batter, whether it's things that are going on with people in the crowd, whatever it might be. There's so much, going on that it'll just enhance the experience by slowing down and watching it. And the message then that we have in this film is also what if we apply that to to real life? What if we slow down, pay more attention to what's going on around us, not thinking about, oh, I've got to do that tomorrow. I've got to handle that next week. I got to take the kids here. I have to go to the grocery store. What if you slow down, absorb the life and the things that are going on around you? You may also enrich your life experience. And so that's another thing I think that that, shows a similarity between both, religion and baseball is slowing down, enriching your experience, which is going to be, much more inspiring, an uplifting thing all the way around. |
| Ashley | You know, I have to say, it's so true. I, I'm a busy mom with five kids, and people are always that. How much time I spend at my son's baseball games. And what I love about it is the way it forces me to slow down. And I just sit there and just kind of watch. I take in, I chat with people, I often bring my little kids and they just ride their bikes by. And it's, it's it's a very peaceful part of my week that I love. One other thing, you know, you were talking about sacred moments for me. It's it's the pitchers and catchers report. That to me is like, I'm Catholic. That's like when you ring the bell, like, okay, it's begun. Well, one quick last question. You know, there's a lot of these athletes today, you know, are there any any men in the MLB that you see really kind of speaking out about their faith? I'm noticing a lot of that. But is that something you're seeing? |
| John Scheinfeld | Well, you know, it was interesting actually, when we were booking interviews for the film, we reached out to a lot of players, and, we did get, two really terrific, players, Curtis Granderson, and Sean Green. And, they were very happy to talk about their faith. But what I did find, what was very interesting is we reached out to a number of players, and while they acknowledged the value in what we were, attempting to accomplish in this film, they felt that their faith was very private and it was something for them and their families, and they didn't really want to speak about it publicly. So that, I thought, was kind of an interesting, expression of their faith. A lot of people are sort of out there saying, yes, I believe this, and I'm very excited about this. And the other people that were very private about it, something about baseball players who live their lives in public every day or every other day, makes it to, I think, a more private expression of faith for them. And so that's what we what we discovered. What you do see, though, is sort of unspoken expressions of faith. And we see that in many different ways where after a player has a great play, they will cross themselves, or they will kiss their lips and point up to the heavens, so I think there are other ways in which they do that. It isn't always simply talking about it. |
| Ashley | Well, I just love the way that your film, does bring to light, the the beautiful way that America's pastime reflects kind of our human innate, spirituality. And so love the movie listeners. Where can they find it? Where can they stream it? Is it coming to theaters? Where can they watch it? |
| John Scheinfeld | Appreciate that we are going to have a limited theatrical exhibition. So we're going to be in four theaters in Los Angeles, March 23rd, 24th, 25th and 26th. I'll be, in, on the 23rd. 24th, I'll be doing a Q&A after those, screenings. Then we're opening up in New York, at the Village Theater for, a weeklong engagement. And I'll be in New York doing some Q&A on the first two nights. And then after that, there's going to be a very special broadcast, of the film on Easter Sunday on Fox Sports one. It's, it's going to be a slightly trimmed down version of the film. So if people want to see the full film, please come to the theater and see it. And then after the Fox Sports broadcast, will be on various video on demand platforms where people can seek it out. So, again, the title of the film is Baseball Beyond Belief, which we love is a title, by the way, because it speaks to, again, both sides. You can be just a baseball fan and say, oh, baseball's just beyond belief. I love going to games. It's great. It's great for my kids. But but also it's beyond belief because you can believe in your faith. And there is something beyond that in the experience of bringing these things together that I think is a worthy, endeavor. So, I'm very proud, as I say, this picture, and I hope your, listeners will, will check us out. |
| Ashley | Well, we've been talking with John Schoenfeld, the filmmaker of Baseball Beyond Belief. I've watched it. It's a wonderful movie, great for watching during spring break. And Easter season. So I encourage all our listeners to watch it. And thank you, John, for coming on the show today. |
| John Scheinfeld | Thanks for having me, Ashley. Appreciate it. |
| Betsy | Welcome back to conversations with consequences, where I am joined by TCA Chaplain Monsignor Roger Landry. Monsignor, we're in the midst of lent, but we also have three important solemnities at this time. Can you tell us about those? |
| Msgr Landry | Well, lent really is a desert experience. We follow Jesus out into the Judean Desert and so we do try to cut ourselves off from a lot of the things that can occupy our time or our desires. But in the middle of this desert, we always have various oases. And so typically Sunday is an oasis where if we're fasting, we can stop fasting on Sunday based on the ancient principle that, that the character of joy that accompanies Sunday is an even greater for us to mark than the typical asceticism of the 46 days of our Lenten period. But, beyond the Sundays, we have two solemnities everywhere. And then in many parts of the country, in the world, a third solemnity that all strike us in the course of eight days. And so here in New York and Boston, in Nigeria, I found out when I was recently in Nigeria and many other places, we have the Solemnity of Saint Patrick the Apostle to Ireland. We'll come back to him everywhere. On March 19th, we have the Solemnity of Saint Joseph, the spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the foster father of Jesus, the patron and protector of the Universal Church. Then, on March 25th, we have the beginning of salvation as we celebrate the incarnation of the Lord in the Annunciation of the Archangel Gabriel to Mary in Nazareth. And so each of these are meant to be celebrated like a Sunday. And they're like, it's important for us actually to break our lent on these solemnity so that we can celebrate them effectively. So if people, for example, have given up alcohol for the 46 days of lent, these solemnities might be a time to have a beer or a glass of wine. If we've given up sweets, which is a good thing to do in lent, these are the times to have that dessert. These are the times to really celebrate, because the joyful character is even greater than the character of lent. And so we can talk about each of them individually. Saint Patrick, the great apostle of Ireland. He was not, patron saint of getting drunk with green beer was exactly the opposite. And he was an extraordinary missionary capable of fasting these long, fast at the top of mountains in order to bring the Irish people, especially the Druids, to conversion. And he's one of the greatest missionaries of all time, where he was incredibly successful because of his sacrifice. He had been for six years a slave in Ireland. Eventually the Lord helped him to escape. He went to France, was trained as a priest, and eventually ordained as a bishop. But he wanted to go back to Ireland to evangelize those who had held them and hell held them in slavery. His famous prayer, his Lorca, or breastplate, is one of the greatest prayers of all time, in which we're asking Jesus to be with us, to be within us, to be outside of us, on top of us, below us. And, you know, on the left, on the right, you name it, that we're supposed to be immersed in Jesus and that prayer is one of my favorites. It was actually being sung at the very moment where I was being ordained a deacon in Rome. So I've always had special affection for Saint Patrick, even though I'm not really Irish. I think no matter what one's, ethnicity, Saint Patrick is there. Saint Joseph, we should all have a massive devotion. Mary had a devotion to Joseph, and like Jesus, obviously had a devotion to Saint Joseph. And so men and women have so much to learn from Saint Joseph about how to approach Jesus sacred Scripture. And Saint Matthew says that he was addressed men. He addressed it his whole life. We could say, with a turn of words that Pope Benedict once used in Cameroon. He adjusted everything in his life to helping Jesus and Mary fulfilled their vocations. He switched his workplaces, even though that was a huge sacrifice. He had to start fresh in Bethlehem. He had to start fresh in Nazareth. He had to start afresh in Egypt when he escaped there. But he was willing to do it. He was an incredibly obedient man who would obey what God indicated in a dream. Not just God was so confident that Saint Joseph would respond promptly, even in a dream, that he didn't have to send somebody to speak to him. Live like an angel, even as Mary did. And God the Father entrusted his Son to Saint Joseph's protection, and even indicated to him in a dream that Herod's trying to assassinate Jesus because he knew Saint Joseph would not waste a nanosecond in order to be able to protect Jesus. And now he protects us in the church, and we should never be grateful enough for this. The other thing often in my priesthood that I try to do is we're living in an age in which many struggle with chastity and we call him our the Blessed Virgin Mary's most chaste spouse. That chastity isn't just something we're supposed to have enough of. But like Saint Joseph, we're supposed to be very chaste. We're supposed to be most chaste. And that doesn't mean for married people that they're never going to be able to have relations with their spouse. It just means that those relations are always going to be white hot, loving, rather than selfish and self-centered. And Saint Joseph, for anybody struggling with the issues of chastity, I just encourage people to turn to him, especially in his feast day, and say, teach me what it means to be most chaste and help me to become most chaste. Likewise, many people struggle with work, and, Saint Joseph is the patron saint of good Christian labor. Saint John Paul the second said, he's the very epitome of the gospel of work. And so if people need to find jobs, if people need to find a better job, if people need to learn how to sanctify their work, Saint Joseph is the professor at that school. And then lastly, next week on the 25th, we have, solemnity, the Annunciation of the Archangel Gabriel, the Blessed Virgin Mary, which is the most important moment of all history, more important than Good Friday. And Easter Sunday and the Ascension and Pentecost because of the incarnation that never happened. If God didn't take on our humanity and enter our world, all the rest of that wouldn't have occurred. And so we're able to celebrate first, that God with us is still very much with us. But then second, we're able to celebrate Mary's response to that extraordinary reality when God entered our world. She shows us how to say, let everything in my life develop according to your word. And. And we ponder Mary's response, where, behold the handmaid, the Lord, let it be done to me according to your word. We've already had a couple this week. We have the third next week. Let's really let them. |
| Ashley | Know. Welcome back to conversations with consequences here on EWTN radio. I'm your host, Ashley McGuire. |
| Betsy | And I'm Betty Fentress. |
| Ashley | And we are marking Down Syndrome Awareness Month and down to your awareness day this weekend, a very important pro-life one that we always love to mark each year. And we're thrilled to have you back on the show, my dear friend Kate Ashbrook. Kate is doing amazing things with an organization called A Purposeful Day. Kate, welcome to the show. |
| Kate Ashbrook | Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. |
| Ashley | Kate, you've been on the show before, but can you remind our listeners, what is a purposeful day and what inspired you to start it? |
| Kate Ashbrook | Yes, I think it's been a couple years since I was here, and I'm excited to share about how we've grown. But a purposeful day was started. It was really a small dream that grew out of hopes for my daughter. I have a 15 year old daughter with Down's syndrome, and everyone says, when you have a child with down syndrome, you the best gift you get is the community that comes with it. And I found that to be so true. And as I met parents who are further along in the journey, they just really expressed a lot of distress and dismay about what happens when school ends and you have worked so hard for this child to achieve milestones. And, you want good things like you want for all of your kids. And when they get to school ending and all of a sudden you're met with the reality of there are not many jobs and what is their life going to look like? How will I fill their days, honestly? And so I thought about that, and I I'm a speech pathologist by by training. That's what I did for my official professional career. And I thought about that and I talked to my husband. I said, okay, if we want something better than we're going to have to build it. And I think I can, I think I can do that. I can come up with purposeful activities. What do we all want? We all want time with friends. We want to keep learning. We want to be able to have a space where we can exercise. We want to be outside and we can do that and team matter in our community. And so we I took all of those pillars, I guess, and said, okay, we'll just build days around that. And that's how it got started. And it's we started it for, I mean, this is officially like we're in our fifth year. And so we've been growing and doing that since then. |
| Betsy | So each year as your daughter progresses, do you have to come up with a whole new plan, or do you have other moms or fathers who are helping you figure out what these will be? |
| Kate Ashbrook | So I should have clarified. So my daughter does not is not in the program yet. This is for adults. And so I really took like a ten year look ahead. And so everyone in our program is 18 or older. And so we we have been able to craft a structure that works each day. You know, we have a social time. We have fitness time, we have volunteering time, we have learning time. We have lunch together, which is a really big deal. And and then activities that we may choose or that may vary day to day, but we have really been able to take and meet these families where they are and talk about, okay, you have a job and you're having this challenge at work. Let's talk about how we would address that. Or family dynamics are shifting in your house because your siblings are now leaving and you're still at home. How can we how can we address these things and how can we learn and grow and be flexible? And yes, we're charting a course in life that doesn't look like maybe you hoped it would, or families originally thought, but how can we do that with joy and purpose each day? |
| Ashley | What are some of the activities, you know, some examples of activities that you do and are there's some fan favorites. |
| Kate Ashbrook | How great question. Dancing is always a fan favorite. And if karaoke comes out, another fan favorite though, you know, it can get a little dicey on who gets so many songs. And so we have to work through challenges with that. Honestly, I think I really enjoy the learning projects too. Right now we're doing we have a goal this year of to get postcards from all 50 states and as many as we can from around the world, and then we're using that as a launching pad to learn about different places, and then you get to practice your tech skills with the Google slideshow that you present to the group, and the pride they feel from continuing their education and being able to teach someone else something is is always a highlight for them. |
| Betsy | And where do you get all your resources? Are you online with other, moms across the country and getting ideas from them, or are you sharing and maybe inspiring people to start something like this in their own communities? |
| Kate Ashbrook | Well, we have a really fantastic team, and I could not be more thankful for how they have just come into our orbit. But we have someone who's really talented with art and another person who crafts our days. And as the three of us, we work together to come up with this and we have fantastic volunteers who will say, you know, it's Saint Patrick's Day, we're going to do this, this and this, and I, I'm going to plan it. And so that has been amazing. The community, not just of our members and their families, but the volunteers. We have gotten one of our areas we're looking to grow in the next year is my heart has always been to say, you can do this where you are. You can launch this where you are. If a group of parents comes together, you can do this. But it is daunting. It's a lot of work and a lot of boxes that must have to be checked to do it well. And so what we're trying to do is get some practices in place, get some materials in place, and be able to share those with other people in the future. So no matter where someone is, they can approach us and say, we want this for our for our community and we can help them grow that. That's our hope. That's a big dream, but that's our hope. |
| Ashley | That was kind of going to be a question I had too, which is I've got to imagine you have a huge demand of interest in this because there's just not a lot of resources like this. And, and our society just doesn't understand how to accommodate and include people with adults with disabilities. How how are you managing the, the desire and the interest with the need to kind of grow in a steady way? |
| Kate Ashbrook | I think that's been one of the challenges. It's hard to. To, to grow in a steady way. Right, because there is a lot of interest. So right now we're full and we have been really committed to growing organically and not if we can't do it well and serve our members and their families well, then we don't want to do it. So we are we have a ratio that we maintain of volunteers and staff to our members. And so we we are full right now. And so now we're figure out how do we add more days, what do our next steps look like. But really being sure we're meeting the needs and being flexible to meet the needs, what our community. Once when I started this, I thought a work at. I would love it to be a big community center, you know, with a lot of opportunities. And maybe you sign up for different classes. And what I realized from the feedback we receive from families is they love the smallness of it, that it feels like a safe and comfortable and known community, and that that's great for their families. And so we're shifting. So I would hope that we don't just grow this a purposeful day program, but the other communities come and say, we could do that here. We can. We see the need in our community and we could do that. I think communities care for their own the best. |
| Betsy | I have a nephew with special needs, and I know that in his particular state, he got to go to school till he was 22 and so, one of the things my sister has advocated for is that that sometimes doctors don't know how to treat patients with adult disabilities as well as pediatricians do. And so do you share, across this platform of people with all kinds of disabilities, what activities that particularly resonate like, whether it's art or music, or are there certain things that that you all have in common, like, I know for autistic kids, I mean, art is a huge component, but maybe with Down's kids is or something else that they're really drawn to. |
| Kate Ashbrook | Or is interesting. You know, each person is still unique regardless of their disability. And so we are always having to tweak and work as a team. And there are people who can't get enough of gross motor, physical fitness activities and others who that's really challenging for, and others who love art. And then the the ones who might love the gross motor kind of roll their eyes when it's time to do the art. And so we, we talk a lot about those are life skills. So whether you're in your family, whether you're in a job, you have to be flexible and do things. Maybe that all these aren't your favorite. But and we talk about what you you gain from those activities and what it serves. The others in the group when we participate as a group. But it is the challenge is real. And this is a very genuine and honest group that is very quick in their forthrightness of whatever activity you may have selected for any given day. So it's a it's a real balancing act. But we I think because we're small, we know our members so well and we're able to ensure that what we're planning is going to resonate. Maybe not everything resonates with everyone, but something will in that day be meaningful to them. |
| Betsy | And do most of these kids live at home? Sorry. Young adults live at home? |
| Kate Ashbrook | Yes. Most of our adults do still live at home. And you know, that is a real challenge that I was just talking to someone today and saying, there they have intellectual disabilities and they still have adult problems, right? They have aging parents, they have siblings living independently or going through challenges or whatever the case may be. And so there is there's a challenge to we serve, I think children, nothing's perfect. We serve children very well. But what does happen with adults? We've we sort of I always tell people where those kids who you graduated high school with and most of the time people say, oh, I don't, I don't really know. I hadn't thought about where they might be today and they kind of disappear. |
| Ashley | Unfortunately, we were talking about art, and you certainly have some artists in your group, because my husband and daughter went to a recent art show that you did, and they brought home stationery, and I was stunned. And, you know, I was a little bit embarrassed like that. I thought an adult with a disability would be, you know, this is what I wouldn't expect. But it was beautiful art, beautiful stationery. It's now my go to stationery. I want more, but, you know, what are some of the misperceptions about adults with disabilities that are like, kind of my own silly misperception? |
| Kate Ashbrook | That's a great question. I think oftentimes because adults may be slow in their processing or even their comprehension or their ability to respond, we assume they can't, rather than, okay, it's it might take time, but a lot of times they they are able and it may not be what in a typical response that we would expect. But you can see that they are they are processing it and they get it and they're they're able to give back. In that sense, I think that's a common when also just that they desire interaction. They really do desire relationships. And friendships and I mean, we laugh about how funny they are. They just they're so genuine and they'll say something. And I mean, I see this with my daughter all the time, but she'll say something and I'll say, she's really living the life the rest of us want to. At times, like she said, exactly how I felt like in school, she would get in trouble because she didn't. When she would put up, you know, resistance when she was in elementary school to going to art class. And she basically came home one day and said I wanted it to be music, and I didn't want to do the art today. So what you see is what you get. But I also the art show that our art director put on was just amazing. And I think her ability to see their strengths and take the time, I think it's a time component. And actually I think we've talked about this, particularly in, you know, the in an area that is hyper focused on success and academics, you have to take the time to see what great skills they have. And, and all of us are short on time, right? We barely wheeled in here to get on the call, but it it's hard and it takes time. And we're just not in a society that wants to take time, I think. |
| Betsy | So, Kate, I wanted to ask you about the perception of people with disabilities, especially Down's. When I grew up, they were part of the fabric of our parish because, you know, quite frankly, people weren't doing genetic testing. So, they I grew up around this and and yet at the same time, I see these beautiful videos on Instagram and social media highlighting Down's babies and, you know, families and communities loving them. So at one end, I feel like they're disappearing. At the other end, I think they're being championed. Can you explain how that feels as a parent? That paradox of both of those things going on? |
| Kate Ashbrook | Well, that's a loaded question, but yes, I will give it my all. You know, it it really challenges, if I'm honest, your beliefs that you held that maybe you didn't even know you held right. I didn't think I cared about my children being successful until I found out I was going to have a child who the world would not view as successful, or would not be capable of achieving the world's level of success or beauty, or whatever paradigm you want to look at it through. And I think that it's a little jarring, right? I I've worked in the helping profession in health care. I never would have thought any differently looking at someone else's child. But all of a sudden when I was my child, I went, oh, well, this is not what I expected. And so there is certainly a grief right where we're getting to the stage, where our friends are headed towards being empty nesters, and we are faced with the reality of, okay, that's that will probably not be what our life looks like. So there is a there's a grief, there is a loss of what is considered normal in in life. That's hard. That said, when you can step back from it and you you see this person, you know, the second we all as mothers have experienced, the second they put that baby in your arms, you lost that child and you would do anything for your child. And so I think when you can step back from it and see, this is a person, And for me, as a Christian, this is a person made in the image of God. This is my child who he has given me. I can I can appreciate and love that child. And I see such good and amazing things in her that other people might not, even in their assumptions about disability, walk right on past and never notice. Abby loves everyone she cares about everyone. She does not judge at all. And so you see. And now I will push back because people are is like they're still humans. She can throw a fit and be a teenage girl like every other human too. She's human, but she brings so much good. And I see, I see that and I appreciate that. And I you just want the world to see that. And my husband will say we're better people because of her. Not a doubt in our minds. She helped us focus in on import the important things in life, which is people and relationships and love and caring for them and not being distracted by all the craziness we get distracted by so frequently. |
| Ashley | Well, and it's it's it's society's loss, too. I mean, I echo Bessie's sentiment. I grew up seeing people with down syndrome and disabilities of all types. My whole life it was very normal. I never saw someone with down syndrome thought, what is that? And I think I've told this story before, but when, the nurse from my O.B., Joanne's office, called after some screening and my daughter was in the car and she said, oh, negative for this, negative for the negative for Down's syndrome, ended the call and my daughter said, What is Down's syndrome? And I. |
| Kate Ashbrook | Thought. |
| Ashley | And I were so blessed because our third child has two kids with Down's syndrome in his class, and you can just see the way he is already a better child for having been friends with them and just experiencing difference. You know that we're all bettered by that. Talk a little bit about work. I've been interested to see, you know, there's there's a woman with Down's syndrome who works at our local library, and she has an aide who helps her stack books, and it's so sweet. She's in the children's section. And I've noticed some some companies seem to prioritize hiring people. Adults with with differences. Whole foods. Interestingly, I see a lot of people there. Are there certain are there certain jobs they thrive in, and are there companies that are doing a great job of being inclusive in the way they hire? |
| Kate Ashbrook | I'm certainly not an expert in this, so I can't speak to it too thoroughly. I, I, I see the challenges with employment for our families. And a lot of those challenges are with earning. They lose benefits. And so families are always trying to figure out this balance of, oh, if they earn too much, then we'll lose benefits. And so it's a real two edged sword. And and work then becomes a challenge for the parents to manage the finances of it. There most of our just speaking to our members, most of them work in those who work have jobs that have been intended for to created for those with disabilities. So I have not seen a lot of what is out there in terms of typical jobs, if you will. There are a lot of organizations doing great work in this space, but I think the challenges are so significant on the financial piece and the benefits piece that it it makes it incredibly difficult for companies to hire and to employ people. Unfortunately. |
| Ashley | |
| Kate Ashbrook | I know that's that's a very general answer, but I think there's a lot of good work happening in this space, a lot of opportunity for growth in the space, because it does require coaching. It does require someone else coming alongside them. We see a lot of times our members, they learn a skill and then they do that well, but they still need coaching sometimes on the interpersonal things. Or what do you do if a customer comes in and addresses you in a way that you're not expecting? You know, a lot of the gray and nuance of social scenarios, I think, is what poses a lot of challenge to, people, adults with disabilities and employment, on top of just the economics and the challenge to or companies to employ, unfortunately, and the families to navigate it too, which is why I thought originally I would head into the employment space. I thought, okay, maybe we'll create a company that employees and then families just kept saying, we just need they need purpose, they need social opportunities. That's what we need for them. And so it sort of shifted my trajectory, which is why my expertise in employment, I'm I'm sure I'm going to get there in a few more years when my daughter hits that, but not there yet. |
| Betsy | Kate, can you talk about the importance of friendship, that this whole thing that you're doing brings to the table and, and the need that that these towns kids and as they become adults have for really meaningful friendship and how your program fosters that. |
| Kate Ashbrook | Yes. I think what I did not understand is really there's the mental health crisis. People with disabilities are not immune from that. And the depression and anxiety that increased significantly as they go through the teen years and into adulthood. Because guess what? They're lonely on top of other things. They're lonely. Their siblings are going and living these lives that they want to live. They even if you have the best school scenario, everyone's gone at 18. And and so families are grappling with trying to find relationships for them. But also a really interesting dynamic is sometimes what people want is they want the typical peer relationship. They want not just to be grouped with disabilities, they want the interaction that occurs outside of their group. And so I think I've learned a lot about that through starting this. And it's been really sweet to see our volunteers step into that space and, and sort of serve as bridges in relationships sometimes too, because when you have particularly a couple people who might have a communication disability, it takes kind of someone coming in and and helping them with that. And, and I think that has been a huge gift on top of them feeling like I have all these friends. You have people fostering those relationships. I mean, it's not smooth sailing all the time. You know, they're learning adult things. We talk a lot about when is it appropriate to call someone? If I call Ashley and she doesn't call me back, I shouldn't keep calling Ashley. You know, there are life skills we have. No matter how much I like Ashley, she'll call me back when she's able to. So they're eager for it. And so there's a lot of opportunity for education and how we go about that. And just a lot of opportunity for building these relationships. I always say the easiest campaign I'm ever going to start is to say hi, just say hi, say hi to the person at the grocery store. They just say hello. It's really not that hard to give them a connection that they feel like that person saw me, right? We all want to be seen. And that person saw me and acknowledged me as another human in this world. That's so valuable. |
| Ashley | Well, we can't think of someone better to talk to. As we mark Down Syndrome Awareness Day and the importance of seeing these people who, as you say, are created in God's image and working towards a more inclusive society, and you're leading the way. Where can our listeners find out and support the work that you're doing at a purposeful day? |
| Kate Ashbrook | Definitely. We, a purposeful day.org is where you can check out our website and everything we're doing in terms of camps and activities, we have coming out and being a part of our work and donating. We also have, you can follow us on Instagram too, at a purposeful day. |
| Ashley | Great. |
| Kate Ashbrook | Facebook. I just thank you all so much. Thank you for this valuable conversation. |
| Ashley | Great. Thank you. |
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