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Episode Description
Dominican Father Joseph Anthony Kress, host of Godsplaining, joins to discuss what many are calling a Gen Z Catholic revival. Drawing from his time as chaplain at the University of Virginia and his current ministry in New York City, Fr. Kress shares how hundreds of young adults are showing up to Mass each week, searching for truth, meaning, and authentic community. He also speaks about his work promoting devotion to the Rosary as a powerful anchor for young Catholics navigating a chaotic culture.
Marking National Infertility Awareness Week, Leigh Fitzpatrick Snead—TCA fellow and author of Infertile but Fruitful—shares her deeply personal journey through infertility and how it reshaped her understanding of vocation, suffering, and spiritual fruitfulness. She offers a compassionate perspective for couples walking this difficult path, emphasizing fruitfulness in the Christian life extends far beyond biological parenthood and is rooted in love, sacrifice, and trust in God’s plan.
Monsignor Roger Landry reflects on the one-year anniversary of the passing of Pope Francis, looking back on his papacy as a profound witness to God’s mercy. Msgr. Landry highlights the Holy Father’s emphasis on accompaniment, forgiveness, and missionary discipleship, and considers how Catholics can continue to live out that legacy in their own lives today.
Catch the show every Saturday at 7amET/5pmET on EWTN radio!
And don’t forget to subscribe to TCA’s daily media roundup for smart Catholic news and commentary delivered straight to your inbox.
Bios
Fr. Joseph Anthony Kress, O.P. is a Dominican priest and co-host of the popular podcast Godsplaining. He served as chaplain at the University of Virginia and now ministers in New York City, where he works closely with young adults. A native of St. Clairsville, Ohio, he attended Franciscan University of Steubenville and graduated with a Bachelors of Arts in Philosophy and Theology. He received a Bachelor of Sacred Theology and Masters of Divinity from the Pontifical Faculty of the Immaculate Conception. In 2025, he began to serve as the Promoter of the Rosary for the Province of St. Joseph and Associate Director of the Dominican Friars Foundation. Over the years he has overseen large-scale liturgies including World Youth Day Krakow, USCCB Convocation, Fr. Emil Kapaun Homecoming, Amazing Parish conferences, and the National Eucharistic Congress.
Leigh Fitzpatrick Snead is a co-host for the nationally syndicated radio show, Conversations with Consequences, and a Fellow for The Catholic Association. A writer, editor, and speaker, her work has appeared in the National Catholic Register, Washington Times, and many other media outlets. She is author of the book Infertile but Fruitful, which chronicles her own infertility journey and offers other struggling couples encouragement and honest paths forward through the lens of God’s word and Catholic tradition. She took her doctoral studies as a John Quasten Fellow at the Catholic University of America and the School of Philosophy, and earned her Bachelor of Arts from St. Johns College in Annapolis, Maryland. A former fashion and travel editor for Theology of Home, she serves on the Executive Board of Human Life. Leigh lives in Indiana with her husband and four children.
Monsignor Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the UN in New York. In 2024, he was appointed National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA by Pope Francis. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and served as executive editor for the Diocese of Fall River weekly paper. He is the author of Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God, and was an on-site commentator for EWTN’s during the 2013 papal conclave electing Pope Francis. He is national chaplain for Catholic Voices USA and New York Chaplain for the Leonine Forum. Msgr. Landry traversed the 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage in 2024, coinciding with his 25th year in the priesthood.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 366 Transcript
| Ashley | Welcome to conversations with consequences on EWTN radio. On your host is Ashley McGuire and we are thrilled to have on the show Dominican Father Joseph Anthony Kress with us today. He is not a stranger to EWTN radio, but I think this is your first time on our show, father. So thank you for taking the time to join us. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Yeah, no, I'm happy to be a part of it and happy. We could kind of carve out the time and have this conversation. |
| Ashley | So you are one of the hosts of another podcast, called God's Planning. And I have seen that especially more and more popping into my feet of definitely listening to some of the episodes. So you're clearly doing a good job of explaining, but could you tell our listeners who are not familiar with God's planning what it is, what it's about, and how it came to be? |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Yeah. It's a podcast of four Dominican friars from, the eastern Province, in the United States, the province of Saint Joseph. And all four of us were classmates. So we kind of entered the novitiate together and started our formation together. And then about a year or so after we all got ordained and kind of got scattered to new assignments and things, we kind of decided to start this podcast, and it really was a fruit of our fraternity together. You know, we all four of us had kind of stayed in contact with each other and kept talking and things like that. And there was this desire to say, like, you know, our conversations are good, and it might be beneficial to the people of God if we just put a few microphones in front of us and hit record. And then we sent, kind of email out to the rest of our classmates and just kind of see, like, hey, is anybody else interested in this? And, so we kind of got together and started it. The summer before Covid. So that would have been, 2019. So we're coming up on, like seven years now, which is, really fantastic. That's been a beautiful project. And the Lord's bless the project and the reaches, surprising and humbling all at the same time. But at the, at the core of it is it's a conversation between two Dominicans, and it's a pretty fraternal conversation. We have some banter and jokes and kind of catch up, but we talk a little bit about everything, whether it's, the spiritual life and theological topics or maybe even just like practicing the faith kind of tips on the best way to practice a faith to, you know, aspects of culture with literature and movies, sports. And we do some interviews and things like that. So it covers a little bit of everything, but it's a conversation with two Dominican friars, and you kind of get drawn into that conversation. |
| Ashley | Well, speaking of sports, I saw that one of your interviews, or guests, was the Boston Celtics coach, Joe Missoula. How was that conversation? And who are some of the other memorable guests you've had on the show? |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Coach Missoula was fantastic. Guest. We really, really had a great conversation. We've interviewed a few other athletes and, NBA players on the podcast, and, so we reached out to them and said, like, hey, do you think, you know, Coach Missoula would want to jump on? And they said, we'll find out. And they made the connection. And he had a great conversation talking about his devotion to the rosary, talking about how important his faith is. And also like the, elements of his, his marriage and the importance of kind of having a strong marriage and doing a very kind of an occupation is very high demand and a lot of travel and stress and things like that. And so it was really beautiful to hear him kind of talk about how his faith kind of informs him as a man, him as a husband, his as a father and his family, but also him as a in a professional setting and as a as a coach and the impact he can have there. So that was a really good, conversation. Some other, like I said, athletes. I'm, I grew up in a sports oriented family. So, sports are really big for me. So to get a chance to interview some of our athletes, has been has been fun. And then other, like, singer songwriters. I remember one of our very, very, very early interviews was with Sarah Kroeger, who's a good friend of mine. But it was just fun to kind of have the interview conversation about how she approaches songwriting and how she approaches her work, and, and writing, music and to glorify the Lord in that way. So, yeah, we've kind of danced all over the place and had some good interviews along the way. |
| Ashley | You know, on the topic of sports, I have five kids. Three of them are boys. So sports is a big part of my life that I did not anticipate because I didn't really have an interest in sports before. But it's been cool to see the way sports is having like its own Catholic moment. And I'm thinking of like Coach Harbaugh and Marcus Freeman and Fernando Mendoza. And we had the Dominican who, he brought the Heisman Trophy to on our show. And so I think that's, that's really, that's really exciting. But, you know, speaking of Fernando Mendoza, when we interviewed that Dominican priest, the, I think he said they had a 530% increase in young people coming into the church between the year before and this year. So much so that he said they basically had to create like delegates, you know, like really well categorized people to kind of help them with, with, with all these people. And so you've you've been in a chaplaincy role at the University of Virginia, and I know the Dominicans are very present on a lot of college campuses. What has been your, you know, personal experience with this surge? I mean, have you seen it kind of slowly percolating? And do you have thoughts on what's going on right now? With young people. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | We've seen kind of, elements of it brewing, you know, the water has been rising to a boil, and you can kind of, elements of that in the past, you know, a few years or so. But I think it's really hit, in the last two years where this is real big surge of interest in the, in the Catholic Church, and it's mostly driven by Gen Z or in the younger generations. And it's it's a new experience, I think, for the church. A lot of my work, when I was at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, I worked with college students. And so I could see the trends kind of starting in that time about there was a there was a real strong interest in that. And now we're seeing, in college campuses all over the nation, groups of converts joining the church, in the upper, you know, double digits, some, some places even clipping triple digits. And then we also see that here in New York City, I'm currently assigned in New York City. And our two parishes here in the city were both just just shy of 100 in each parish of their OCI class. And it's a really and it's mostly, you know, young adults coming in, especially here in New York City. Like they come for their first jobs and they're trying to make a name for themselves in the financial district or in the arts there these types of things. And yet even in those kind of, environments, and you would not expect the faith to be as present as it is. And it's always, you know, I had a coworker that invited me to mass, or I've been kind of asking these questions and just not sure where to find an answer or a substantive answer. And the roads lead them back to the church or to the church for the first time. And they, they find that there's a, there's a coherence to the church's beliefs. Her teachings, her practices. And I think it's that kind of coherence that not only is enticing or intriguing, but is convincing. And it's convincing enough where they are willing to commit their life to it. And so we've gone through a number of generations, I believe, where the big push was to kind of discover on your own, and maybe not even force the questions or maybe even minimize, you know, the life questions that we all go through. And yet those questions still remain. And so the generations that we see nowadays are like, you know, maybe courageous enough to say, no, I still have these questions. What is the meaning of life? Who am I? And what am I defined, identified as they are identified by and they're actually pursuing their legitimate, ways to answer those questions. And they're finding that the church and Jesus Christ himself is the is the is the one who can give those answers in that direction in their life. |
| Ashley | Do you have any thoughts on, the issue of formation for converts? And I'm thinking about this because when I came into the church, it was a very small group of us. It was maybe ten. And then on top of that, I had supplemental formation from the Dominicans, who are, you know, thought to have to be the gold standard. For well. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | I wouldn't have said that. Just for the record. |
| Ashley | That was I'm saying it I should say. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Those are yours. Now I'm on the line to welcome you. |
| Ashley | But for faith, you're welcome. Yes. Thank you. Well, But, you know, when we have this tidal wave of converts and then, you know, adding the layer of we're both in the media and there's, you know, been some issues with figures in the media, maybe not being so such great of witnesses about about the church. How do we make sure that all of these converts who, you know, we want them, we want as many converts as we can get, are being formed properly, especially in this confusing digital age. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | I have two thoughts, and both are like, you know, soap boxes of mine. So buckle up and we'll see how long this is. But, I think the, the big challenge for the church, especially the church in America right now, is we've spent, decades, you know, 40, 50 years of emphasizing evangelization, emphasizing this need to go out and evangelize into, attract and invite, people into the church. And basically all of the effort in the work was to get people over the threshold and then was like, oh, okay, we got them in Easter. Good luck. You did it, you know. But I see what's happening now are the people are flocking to the Church of themselves. It's not because of different programs, and it's not because of initiatives, but they're they're finding their way into a Catholic church, and they're finding them their way into into the church through the sacraments. I think the real big question and the challenge for the American church is, what do we do now? Like we're getting, you know, hundreds of converts coming into the church now. Well, now, how are we going to sustain them? I think the big shift that needs to happen will be helping those new converts to put down roots in the church, in the faith, especially the younger, converts, you know, teaching them the rhythms of the, the Christian life and the rhythms of a liturgical life, because they may, you know, the church where they joined, you know, they may have to travel because they got a new job somewhere, and they need to be able to translate their initial experience into a new environment. And you can only do that if you have strong roots. So I think the real challenge right now for the church is to be able to assist these new converts, you know, in the accompaniment stage after entering into the church for the next year or two years or so, so that they can grow and put down stronger and deeper roots in the church. But I also believe, this is the second point, is that the landscape is completely different. Completely different nowadays. And what I mean by that is, you know, 15 years ago you used to, encounter the faith because you met somebody. And and one way to think about this is with respect to, priestly vocations or religious vocations. You know, I was intrigued by the Dominicans because I met a Dominican. Right. And then after meeting that Dominican, it kind of piqued my interest. And so then I went online and I did my research and kind of validated my experience in meeting that Dominican. But what we see nowadays is the first encounter happens in the digital engagement. |
| Ashley | Most. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | People are encountering the Dominicans, or most people are encountering the faith in a digital context, and then they're showing up in person to validate what they've already encountered in the digital sphere. So we have to see and recognize that it's the inverse of what it was as as recent as 15 years ago, and that the first encounters are typically taking place in a digital landscape, and then the validation of that is happening in person. And so understanding that kind of shift also helps us to understand how we can help, these new Catholics in these new converts to grow the roots that they need that will be able to kind of nourish them for the rest of their life. And as they, you know, go through all of life's stages in that way because there's going to be a tremendous amount of resources online, but it needs to be kind of strengthened and validated with real relationships in a deep way. |
| Ashley | So true. Well, you mentioned, vocations and alluded to your own calling. And I'm told that you, had a very inspiring experience at Lourdes. Tell us about it. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is taking me back a little bit, but, I was, a college student. I went to the Franciscan University of Steubenville, and, my senior year, which is a little odd, but my senior year, I studied abroad at our sister campus and got me in Austria. And during that trip or during that semester, I took a trip to Lourdes, and I was volunteering with our kind of mission spring break trip or whatever it was, and we would help out in the the Baths of Lourdes and help with the rosary processions and things like that. But I remember one day, and when I was, praying at the grotto, at the cave itself, the grotto where Bernadette, had her, visions of the Blessed Mother. And I was kneeling at the exact spot, like they have a little plaque on the ground. It's like here at this spot, Bernadette knelt for the first apparition. And so I'm kneeling there and trying to do my, you know, nice little pious thing and, praying the rosary. And I just remember having this, like, deep interior voice, just convict me and say, you know, you are mine now, and I'm never letting go. |
| Ashley | |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | And it was clear because those were not my thoughts and my words, and I was a little kind of taken off guard to put it. And I was like, I'm sorry. What was that? Yeah. What in the. It kind of repeated itself. It's just an interior kind of voice. Not this big booming thing from the outside, but just a very interior moment. And it repeated and said, you're mine now. I'm never letting go. So I was like, oh, okay. And I kind of met the Dominicans and was kind of discerning them at this point. So I, I left and left that spot and went to one of the gift shops and Lourdes because, you know, God knows there are thousands of gift shops in Lourdes. And I picked up a habit rosary that was made by Cistercian monks. And I said, okay, well, I'm going to roll the dice on this one. If this is the reality, then this is it. And so I picked up that habit rosary, purchased it, and then I prayed, all 15 decades in the basilica there. And that's still the rosary I wear on my habit every day. Now. So it reminds me of kind of the, the genesis of that. But I definitely credit our Blessed Mother with my vocation. And going back to that moment and entrust it completely to her in that way. |
| Ashley | That's beautiful. Can you tell us a little bit about the Dominican connection to the Rosary? |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | I oh, yeah. |
| Ashley | Yeah. Tell us. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Yeah. That's that's one of the hats that I wear. I am the promoter of the rosary for the province of Saint Joseph. So, the Dominican connection, the rosary is a kind of release. Finds its origin in that the tradition holds that the Blessed Mother gave the rosary to Saint Dominic. And there were other kind of forms of devotion with recitation, of kind of formulaic prayers and things like that. But the Rosary as we know it really does find its origin in Saint Dominic. And she gave it to Saint Dominic as a weapon, to proclaim the truth, but also to protect the truth. Who is her son, Jesus Christ. And it's not, I find that far too many people think that it's just a mechanical kind of formulaic set number of prayers. If you do these number of prayers, then boom. Task completed and rosary finished. But really, what Saint Dominic handed on to his brothers and generations was it's about meditating on the mysteries of Christ. And so the prayers in the these are kind of setting the buttons environment so that we can meditate and contemplate the mysteries of Jesus Christ. And that's where the strength and the power of the Rosary comes from, because it's anchored in Jesus Christ and meditating upon the mysteries. And that we find this was the patrimony that has been handed on through the Dominican cares and in the Dominican Order, for the entirety of the church is it's not about just white knuckling it and crossing off the number of prayers in your book, but it's giving yourself the opportunity to be almost enveloped in and kind of tripped up into the mysteries of the life of Jesus Christ. And to do so through the Rosary is how, as is the gift that we've been given. |
| Ashley | I'm doing the, a series on the different mysteries of the Rosary through my walking with purpose group, and my mind was kind of blown when father, I think it was Father Pavelka who does this series, pointed out that Mary it sounds so basic, but that Mary prayed in the presence of Jesus and so who better to help us get into the presence of Jesus and Mary? Well, father, how about a lightning round? We've talked a lot about the the digital world. What are some of the apart from God's planning, what are some of the, influencers podcast websites, apps that you like? |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Oh, this is, this is a challenge because, I've, I've grown a lot in my own kind of self knowledge. And I recognize that, I, I tend to not actually listen to a lot of other kind of Catholic creators or things like that, because, I tend to kind of be influenced too much and we'll start to like, try to imitate them. So in order to kind of keep our content, in the voices of our, our, our podcast, I try to actually shy away from that. So I'm not much of a podcast consumer. When I do, it's based on and you're going to laugh at this, but it's mostly golf podcast because it's my go to hobby. And so if I want to kind of engage with my hobby or something, that's, that's the the way I choose to do it. So yeah, I, I shy a little bit away from that. We, I think if you look at our, guest episodes, you will see a lot of the kind of collaborators and the people that we collaborate with, we work well together, because we support their content and things like that. But just as a very personal thing, I kind of shy away from that because I don't want to try to constantly be imitating somebody else. So that's a long answer to a, a lightning round question, I guess. |
| Ashley | Makes total sense. Well, where can our listeners find gods planning? |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | You can find it on all of your, podcast platforms. Where? On Apple Podcasts and Spotify as well as YouTube. So if you get on YouTube, you can find us there and you'll see the video versions on YouTube as well. You can find more information at Gods planning.org. And that'll be information for, the podcast itself, our merch, content or merch line, as well as any of our in-person events. We do retreats and days of recollection all over the United States, so you'll find more information there on our website. And you can also, support us on Patreon if you want to kind of get some more exclusive content, join the channel. We, we do some exclusive things with our supporters that way. |
| Ashley | Well, Father Chris, thanks so much for joining today. |
| Father Joseph Anthony Kress | Thank you so much. God bless. |
| Betsy | Welcome back to conversations with consequences on EWTN radio, where I am joined by TCA Chaplain Monsignor Roger Landry. Monsignor, today, as we record this podcast, it's the one year anniversary of the death of Pope Francis. And can you tell us one year out, what are the legacies that you see really enduring with his pontificate? |
| Msgr Landry | Good to be with you, Betsy. Happy Easter to you. As we ponder Pope Francis, we need to be really grateful for a couple of the things that he did during his pontificate. I think first, he put mercy front and center. Sometimes when people hear mercy from Pope Francis, they misunderstand. He's not talking about indulgence, because Pope Francis always made the distinction between sinners who recognize they're sinners in need of God's mercy and the corrupt, meaning sinners who think that they're justified in their sin. Pope Francis was never blessing the corrupt. He was seeking to call everybody to conversion. But the sweet way to call people to conversion is to talk about God's mercy. And honey can attract people to that font, whereas the vinegar way of attracting people to God's mercy is pushing them through, focusing on their sins, which is something that Pope Francis didn't do. But I'll never forget what he said. His first Angelus is Pope. God never tires you for giving us. It's when you tire of asking for forgiveness. But we never tire of asking for God. Never tires to give. And then the Jubilee of Mercy and then throughout his benefit get. That was very sincere. John Paul the second, of course, prior talked about the Cross of Mercy. Every pope talks about the sacrament of confession, but it was a real priority for Pope Francis. And thanks be to God, it was. Second will remember him for many of the iconic gestures of his papacy that he really sought to reach out to those on the margins, just like he called the whole church to go out to the peripheries. I'll never forget what he did in November of 2013 where he hugged that man. His name was Vinicio Riva, who had the neuro fiber mitotic tumors all over his face. One of the most difficult people of all time to look at. Pope Francis didn't know anything about him, went on up and just hugged him for 90s. And what Vinicio said afterwards, he he felt, despite all the, pains of discrimination he had experienced over the course of his long life, just in that embrace of love which was coming not just from the 266th Peter, but the one for whom Pope Francis was working, Jesus himself. And so those types of actions on Pope Francis's part weren't for the cameras. Those were really coming from his, from the depths of who he was as a Christian and as a human being. It's one of the reasons why I have a photo of the Holy Father embracing Vinicio Riva, that always a company's me, because that is the iconic image of the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. Third, he was a real serious missionary, but he wanted to share Jesus with others, and he tried to frame his entire pontificate within a missionary reform. In his first document, Evangelii Gaudium, or the Joy of the gospel, he said that he was trying to reform the entire church. In a missionary key, he stressed words that have now become even more important to me and my task as the national director of the Difficult Mission Society, that the church doesn't have a mission, but is a mission, and that you and I don't have a mission, he wrote in that beautiful exhortation. I am a mission on this earth. That is the reason why I am here, that each of us is supposed to mention that. And so those are, I think, the three most lasting things of his pontificate, his thrust of mercy, his personal charity, and then his desire for all people to come to know, love, serve and share Jesus. |
| Betsy | Well, Pope Leo definitely mentioned this on the papal plane and how grateful he was for the legacy of Pope Francis. Can you give us a wrap up about the trip to Africa that Pope Leo is finishing up? |
| Msgr Landry | Pope Leo was finishing up his 11 day apostolic pilgrimage to four countries in Africa. He started in Algeria, where Saint Augustine, his spiritual father, was born and worked and lived. And he specifically talked about not only Augustine, but about the martyrs there who were made in witness to the ongoing presence of God. From there he went to Cameroon. Both the English and the French speaking parts of Cameroon. They've been in a de facto civil war for a long time. And he tried to bring peace, the peace that comes from the risen Jesus about whom he preached throughout that entire pilgrimage. Third, he then went to in Gola, country, with a history quite checkered, that it suffered a lot. But it was the launch point for the transatlantic slave route. But in addition, it's struggled quite a bit with corrupt governments and, a lack of economic development and sort of the chronic, difficult social issues that come from corruption and poverty. And he really tried to bring the light of Jesus there. And I think he did it effectively. And then he's, as we were recording this in Equatorial Guinea, where in Spanish, he's trying to do the same thing there in Equatorial Guinea really does likewise. Need some hope. |
| Betsy | Thank you for helping us remember the legacy of Pope Francis, and for the great round up on Pope Leo's African trip. |
| Msgr Landry | So I bless you. That's. |
| Ashley | Welcome to conversations with consequences on EWTN radio. I'm your hostess, Ashley McGuire. |
| Betsy | And I'm Betty fan interest. |
| Ashley | And we are always, loving the opportunity to interview our own TCA colleague, Lee Sneed, who is back on the show with us. We haven't seen as much of her lately, because she's been super busy with talks and tours revolving around her new book, Infertile But Fruitful. But given this very important week, National Infertility Week, we thought, what better time than to sit down and talk with you? We so thank you leave for making time for us. |
| Leigh Snead | My pleasure ladies, back to be ready to be back in the virtual studio with you. |
| Ashley | So you've been super busy, and last week you were on the campus of Notre Dame for a talk, one of many talks you've given about your book. Can you tell us how that went? And and just in general, how your book talks have been going and what the reaction has been when you're speaking with people about your book? Yeah. |
| Leigh Snead | The event in Notre Dame was really great. I was afraid that maybe the students kind of had not thought it through when they booked me, because it was two student organizations that had originally reached out and I thought, oh man, what do these young kids want to hear from an old lady about her memories of infertility? But you know, I did try to make it sort of like at, you know, what do we do when things don't work out the way we planned? And, you know, and it was a Catholic audience primarily. So talk about faith. And you know what to do. And, sort of how that challenges us and how we can actually grow in our faith from that sort of situation. But they were actually really I mean, I was more worried about them. They were they were really interested in some of the infertility stuff and some of the, young women had already, because, I mean, the blessings of the popularity of women, young women before they have been married, checking their cycles. |
| Ashley | That. |
| Leigh Snead | You know, other side of that is that they're discovering that maybe they have permanent infertility at a young age. Which was a little bit heartbreaking and something I didn't expect to hear. So that was like another, you know, I do in my book. I try to represent sort of different flavors of infertility. And that was actually one thing I hadn't really thought of, of knowing about it that young. So that was pretty interesting. But yeah, it was really well-received. People like it, I mean, people I mean, I think because of the conversational way I wrote the book, it's, people really, I think, feel like they're sort of talking to a friend or, you know, just like sort of in discourse. And obviously it's one sided because I've already done talking a book, but, yeah, I'm getting a lot of, a lot of positive responses and it's great, you know, but even honestly, a couple of them have been so sort of deep and, really moving that I kind of felt like if if I only got that response, I would, I would be satisfied from that one response. |
| Betsy | So how different was it to go from an audience that you wrote the book for, for people who have experienced infertility and have had to look at the array of choices, some which line with Catholic teaching, some don't, and talking to an audience where except for these young girls who who know that they have infertility issues, they're not that they're not there yet. They're not facing the problems. Was it a different experience to talk to them than it was to people your age who have gone through adoption or, you know, various things? |
| Leigh Snead | You know, it was and it was, I think there was more of a, a curiosity about it. For instance, like some of them had adopted siblings because their parents had experienced either infertility and then, you know, adopted and then had a biological child or had secondary infertility. And so they kind of just wanted, like, you know, a better understanding of their parents situation, what they had gone through. And so there was a lot of more questions like that. Whereas when I speak to more, the peer group even kind of like a 35 and up group, it's more like you know, oh, me too, you know, thank you for saying these things out loud. I felt like I was the only one that had these terrible feelings. You know, I really liked hearing about your stories and or, you know, or the thing like, I now I know how better to approach my sister who's experiencing infertility or a friend or, you know, things like that. So it's more sort of like affirming for the older people and the other the younger it was more curiosity, I think. |
| Betsy | Interesting. |
| Ashley | So one of the things your book does so beautifully is present the church's teaching on this topic, in, in a, in a gentle way with some humor thrown in. But it's it's a really, sensitive, meaningful topic for people, and especially when it comes to the issue of IVF, there's just a lot of even Catholics who are not categorized on the church's teaching animals. Have you encountered any pushback or hostility from people, whether it's people who've used IVF or. Who are adamantly pro IVF? For our pushing back on, you say. |
| Leigh Snead | You know, there were some and, there's some comments on one of the articles I wrote, and I know you're not supposed to read the comments, but usually the comments I get are like the supportive kind. Like, thank you for being the voice I needed to hear. Thank you for being a friend for this book to me. And and so I went in kind of looking for like a feel good, you know, little boost. And people were mad about all kinds of things. But that was definitely one of the things. But I have a piece coming out in Angeles this week. About understanding why those in the pews next to us might be tempted. And if we understand what that term paper knows, even with somebody who thought they were definitely against the idea of leave the church's teachings, all those things. And so I think if we can understand the temptation for even those faithful Catholics, then we can better support them through, you know, just through friendship and love and prayer, understanding that perspective, because I think it's it's hard and people say things, oh, just adopt or, you know, let's keep trying or just relax all those things. I think that, you just never really know what's going to tip somebody over the edge or, you know, what's led them to a point where they will tip over the edge and choose to do it. Idea. And so I think understanding what those real temptations are, for like real believers in the church's teachings is a real step forward. And being able to support those people. |
| Betsy | So infertility used to really be a taboo subject. And have you even found, since the time that you started writing the book, there's been so much about IVF since the time you had the idea to write the book, and you published the book, but do you feel that all of this conversation and bringing it into the mainstream has, been a really healthy thing for you and your family and even your children to understand how how they became part of your family? |
| Leigh Snead | Yeah, I think so. I think that it's it's important that people are talking about it. And one thing I've really discovered is that I think there are a lot of people talking about it that I just didn't know about, that weren't on my radar because they were like maybe in their 30s. And, well, Substack is a really very special I mean, what do you call them? Platform, I guess. I mean, it's amazing the quality of writing that's on there, and especially the Catholic women who are writing about things like infertility. And one of them has like, has created like a rolling database. So things she puts together articles and books and it's just incredible the resources that are available. I mean, again, like this was it's totally there were just a couple like, weird chat rooms. You know, when I was doing all this 20, 25 years ago, so the advent of the internet has made that so much easier to share. Those things, even like Facebook groups, every, you know, sort of online resources. But yeah, I do think I think the more we talk about it, the more women are going to get. I think both medical and spiritual and psychological help that they need, rather than just sort of trying to ride out the clock until finally they get pregnant and then they never have to think about it again, which I think is a strategy a lot of us use for a long time, because you just think once it's over, I never have to think about these days again, because then I'll have the baby and everything will be fixed, you know? And so I think that being able to be more present and then, you know, and then that helps you in a more deeper way, like appreciate the suffering and be able to turn that suffering into something and understanding the redemptive nature and all about that. I mean, that's not going to be immediate. That's obviously a work in progress, even for someone who's been dealing with the for decades. But yeah, I think the more we can talk about it, you know, you get it's like a practical situation where, I mean, people talk about tell the retell their pregnancy stories and their childbirth stories for ages 15 years long event and, you know, I don't know how interested everybody is in that, but I think that that's like, one of the ways that women can feel like, othered or something, you know, but I think if they felt on the same footing to share, like, oh, and then we did this treatment and then we tried this and then we had this, you know, pregnancy loss and yeah, I think that being able to share your story and not feel like, well, your stories kind of in polite conversation for public, but, you know, like these big stories about placentas and things are okay. You know. |
| Ashley | I don't know. Well, and you tell your adoption story and unfortunately, there's a, I think, a stigma that persists around adoption. And that's borne out, I think, by the statistics that show that adoption rates are down and back. Some I read some forms of adoption are down at 20 year lows. Why, why do you think this is? And actually, you tell a story in one of your articles that you wrote about speaking with the woman who said something to the back of, I didn't know you could do that. You know, about adoption? And why do you think that is? Why is it that people are less and less turning to the choice of adoption? |
| Leigh Snead | Well, you know, I mean, she was 80 years old at the time and and she lived in like a rural farm town in Pennsylvania. And so I think that probably circumstantially your time and place, was probably why she didn't realize, you know, that that could be done. It was sort of more the era of like an orphan, right? That needed a home. You know, I don't, you know, I don't know, I mean, it's impossible for me to tell my infertility story without talking about my own adoption story because I pursued both at the same time or, you know, piggybacked or we were we were open to both options at the same time for years. But it's, it's always it's a little bit tough. And I do some I mean, I try to make up for this. I really try to be intentional about not, conflating adoption and infertility, but I think because I adopted like an and had fertility treatments, like in align with each other in a sort of out of order. I have got some negative feedback from that because the people who, aren't called to adoption but experienced infertility are really very, very sensitive to talking about infertility and having those conversations turned to adoption. And that's really I mean, and that's really like through the most practical advice that comes out of all of that is, you know, people are always asking me, and I love they ask me this like, what are some things we don't say to somebody who's experiencing infertility? Like, what are the ways that we accidentally put our feet, our mouth? I mean, we all do it. I have done it to fellow infertile. Like, you know, we all make mistakes all the time. But one of them is definitely like, don't like, suggest adoption. Like they've heard about adoption. They know about adoption, you know, just like they know about, like, every single fertility test on the planet and all these things. So, yeah, I mean, they're already discerning. Are they already have discerned and, you know, it's it's, it's a lot of supporting people with infertility is really hard because it's a lot of waiting and listening. |
| Betsy | So instead of, deciding what we shouldn't say, let's also talk about opening and leading questions that allow people to share their stories or what's on their heart. What are the kind of questions you like to be asked on this topic? |
| Leigh Snead | You know, that's hard to say too, because sort of depending on where you are, like emotionally at any given point or spiritually, you know, you can kind of want to unload and talk. I'm just like any sort of like hard thing you're going through. You might be, you know, really feeling you need to unload or, you know, you might not want to talk about it or I mean, I think you first, if you just start with praying for the that person, that couple and without them even asking and, you know, not asking if I can pray for you. Yeah. Just do it. And that's good. And then I think, and you can pray for specific things, like, I hope that they feel like they they know that they can come to me. I think making sure you include them, don't accidentally leave them off a guest list because you assume they're feeling a certain way and don't want to come, but make it easy for them to say like no to your child's first birthday party or a baptism or something like that. That's going to really, you know, hit close to home for them if you, you know, nope. For, you know, even like 80% sure that that maybe they're struggling with infertility. Just make it, you know, include but make it easier for them to bow out with, like, no hard feelings and then, you know, making time for them. It's a tough thing to like, because I know that when I was really in the thick of it, I really wanted to spend time with other people's babies because, I mean, I just wanted baby so much. And I loved being around babies still, even though I wasn't getting pregnant. And it didn't that didn't make me sad, but a baby shower would be hard sometimes, so, you know, you just have to know. And I think really just, you know, you just gently phrased things like, do you think you'd want to come or, you know, like, what do you want to do? Do you want to do some like if you're a person with a child and you have a friend without children yet infertility, like, do you want to do something together? You don't want me to bring the baby or not, you know, but and make it kind of keep it in their court. And then I think the more you do that and the more you know, and you don't feel like you have to have a million follow up questions, people are going to feel things and, you know, they're going to come forward to you. They're going to approach you because you've been so just like, open and supportive without any, you know, catches. |
| Ashley | So we're talking about infertility and I think different forms of infertility. There's certainly unexplained infertility. But there's also a real sort of cultural tug of war going on right now about the question of delaying having children and how that affects your fertility and even even beyond that, whether, you know, if you start having kids young, if that extends your fertility into later years, as opposed to, you know, if you start having kids at 27 versus if you start having kids at 37. Can you talk a little bit about that? But then can you also talk about, delaying adoption? I, I've always thought it so interesting and beautiful that you started your adoption journey young, and you were able to have a big family. I mean, there was a time when 4 or 5 kids was not a big family, but by today's standards, it certainly is. So can you talk a little bit about the dynamics? |
| Leigh Snead | Yeah, I think, yeah. You know, I used to be I think, when I was younger and people who were married later and or who started trying to get pregnant later would complain about infertility. I'm like, that's not infertility, that's just aging, which is really uncharitable. But, you know, it's kind of like, know me. I'm the one who has it bad. But the, you know, I've really grown to see it, like, you know, even if, you know, like, it's all you do, you finally found, you know, your soulmate, your man of your dreams. Good man. You're going to marry them. If you're 40, 39, 42, you're still going to think maybe, you know, maybe this will happen for me. And you know, when it doesn't happen or if it doesn't happen, you're still going to be just as crushed. You know, even if you knew going in, there could be a problem. And so my heart is really softened, towards that, thank goodness, because that was, you know, a terrible attitude. And then I think for, I mean, I think my husband and I situated both of us and I don't know why. But even though I don't think we would have pursued adoptions, I know some people grow up thinking, like, I want to adopt a child someday. I it never really occurred to me one way or the other, you know? But when we weren't getting pregnant was like, oh, yeah, but adoption, like, it was just it was sort of, I don't know, it was it was not plan A, but it wasn't plan B for us. It wasn't a big deal for us. And so I think by the time we were, I guess two years into trying to get pregnant, I tried all kinds of stuff. We were like, let's just start the process for us. And because we just really wanted to be parents, whereas I think other people really do feel, like it's an admission of defeat. Like we've tried everything we've tried. And so they really wait until sort of their fertile years are almost spent just making sure, before they pursue it. You know, I think, too, I mean, I think that there's a lot of options. I think, you know, unfortunately, private adoption is very expensive. And especially if you've been spending a lot of money on fertility treatments, you know, you could need to save up again. I think there's lots there's lots of reasons. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, people are really optimistic. And, you know, I think things are happening because even though, things like nepro, restorative reproductive medicine often takes, you know, years because you're fine tuning and fine tuning every cycle. And so you still have to, you know, wait another 30 days for, you know, to fix things. Then you have to wait again to see if it worked. And, you know, it can take many years to, to achieve pregnancy under that care. You, you know, and so you're kind of you're kind of spent by the end of that too, you know, in my, I think the time invested is, you know, is really is hard is hard work. I mean, just the wait. And so I think that then starting up a whole entire new process can be sometimes too much for them until they need a break after that, if you know those treatments have failed before pursuing something else. |
| Betsy | So you talked about your husband and I think in the introduction to your book, or maybe in the first chapter, you talked about how men reached out to you when you wrote about infertility. So is this something that women have shared with you that their husbands really find it hard to talk about? Because the second of what this question is also, I saw a study recently that, marijuana use has really decreased sperm count. So can you just talk about the landscape of men's reaction to their wives, infertility or men men being the reason that their fertility isn't, you know, ripe enough to conceive a child? |
| Leigh Snead | Yeah. You know, the the men reaching out often like one time I could I mean, one story and I'm sure I've even told it on the show before because it's so moving. And this was before I wrote the book. But when I had a couple articles in the National Catholic Register, young married man had been suffering from infertility. It was just like up at 3:00 in the morning, just searching internet, just wanting you, just wanting some solace. So you wanted some help and supporting his wife and making her feel better. And he came across one of my articles and he. Then he saw my last name and realized he was a former student of my husband's. And so then reached out, to him and I think and he's. And since then he has a current law student who, you know, has talked to him and he and his wife, I read the book. They were at my talk, a lot of people, a lot of men and couples that we know have actually gone through my husband in terms of that stuff, not so much directly to me. But what was I sorry, Betsy? What was the second of your question? |
| Betsy | Well, just how, you know, I feel like that when we talk about infertility. It's about a woman not carrying her child, you know, in her own womb. Right? But. So we kind of assume that there's some medical issue with the woman. Yeah, right. And so I was just wondering, as you wrote the book and you did your research, what came across to you that maybe men needed to hear? Or are men really shy about wanting to share their stories? And I was just linking that to, you know, we're seeing that with so much more marijuana use that, that maybe a lot of the issues are men's lifestyles before they come into a marriage. |
| Leigh Snead | Yeah, I think I think that's definitely true of those articles about the pot use were really eye opening. I think that there's, I think there can be like a double stigma almost against that. And I think that women are very protective of their husbands who have male factor infertility. Because of that. And I think, again, that's just this whole I mean, it's just, you know, that this whole association, I mean, it's it's a natural association about like, manliness and virility. And, you know, we're sort of not making that up in a certain sense. But still, it's you're not less manly because you have like a medical diagnosis. And I think that's the same sort of true thing, I think, with, with infertility, because obviously women question their femininity and their womanhood and their, you know, their built their their whole design is meant to be a mother and, you know, it's not working. So I think that whole idea that you for a man to not be able to, you know, produce, you know, airs and sort of all these things that are just, you know, ingrained in US Western culture. I think it's just it's a it is a really painful thing. I, I actually have not met so many people with it, that I was really, my eyes were deathly open in the process of writing the book because, again, because I'm a woman and I'm interested in myself, I hadn't really much looked into the male factor in fertility, but getting to know some people and reading their stories and understanding the different dynamics for that, and just the sort of, you know, I'm it's all going to be challenging for a marriage, but the different sorts of challenges that it poses was really it was really interesting. |
| Ashley | So one of the A postulates that you have introduced us to is called Springs in the desert. Our listeners may remember your conversation and when we had and shooting on the show, can you tell us some of the offerings that they have marking in fertility this week? And, and maybe if there's any other, resources or things that you came across when you were writing your book, that might be, other helpful resources for couples that are struggling with this. |
| Leigh Snead | Yeah. Springs in the desert is a wonderful organization. Excuse me? They offer, a lot of online support. They offer guides to pastoral support in parishes. They have kids, they have met kids. They have online prayer groups. They have online support groups. They have in parish support groups. They have in-person retreats. And now this week, I mean, I think it's providential that it worked out that actually it was they were ready and able to launch this new project that they've done with Ascension Press on the Ascension app. It's one is a a guided spiritual reflection about the lives of saints that support you, while you're experiencing infertility. And then the other one is, a novena, for yourself or for those others, experiencing infertility. And it's just amazing what this small like, grassroots organization has, the amount of resources and the amount of events they do on a shoestring budget is remarkable. So if you are interested in supporting this wonderful and fertility Catholic ministry, think about springs in the desert, because they're incredible and they could really use your support, especially during infertility week. Another one is the fruitful hollow. And another one is, Mary Bruno, who has a site, and several very, very good books on infertility. But her, social media handle is White Lotus blooming. And her material is really good, too. |
| Ashley | So they were unfortunately out of time here. But where is the best place that people can buy your book? And also follow your work? Read the reviews that are coming out, watch your interviews and and to follow your other other work with the Catholic Association. |
| Leigh Snead | Chartwell Catholic Association. Morgue is a good place to start to leave. It's magic. SI.com. Book available at Sophia Press's website. Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Other places where you can find books. Is that the two questions? Where to buy the book? Where to find out about me? |
| Ashley | Yes, we got your website in there. And, social media, we covered that. |
| Leigh Snead | Oh, I'm at least need on Instagram and at Sneed Lee on Twitter. |
| Ashley | Okay. Well, Lee, thank you so much for joining Betsy. And I today to talk about, this very important topic that is a struggle for so many millions of people. And your beautiful witness to the church's beautiful teaching on this issue. I strongly encourage our listeners to Bailey's book, and to follow her work and to follow the Catholic Association and all that we do as well. But, Lee, thank you so much for joining us today. |
| Leigh Snead | Thanks for having me, ladies. |