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With election results now in, TCA colleagues Dr. Grazie Christie and Ashley McGuire discuss the impact the Catholic vote had, especially in light of Harris’ anti-Catholic bigotry. An NBC News exit poll shows Catholics supported the Trump-Vance ticket over Harris-Walz by a resounding 58%-40%, and another by the Washington Post reports 56%-41% of Catholics rejecting Harris in favor of Trump. We also discuss the defeat of Amendment 4 in Florida, and how helping families flourish is still the highest priority.
With multiple arrests of pro-lifers praying silently outside abortion facilities in the UK, investigative journalist Madeleine Kearns joins to share her jaw-dropping research as the ‘thought-police’ are clearly alive and well, terrorizing those who pray. The UK’s Orwellian new “safe access” law went into effect in September, having passed in the Scottish Parliament earlier this year. In October, a British man who was not on the premises was convicted of “criminal charges” for praying silently near an abortion clinic – a violation of the new law that imposes a “safe zone” within 200 meters of an abortion facility.
Father Roger Landry also offers an inspiring homily to prepare us for this Sunday’s Gospel.
Bios
Dr. Grazie Pozo Christie is an M.D. and Senior Fellow for The Catholic Association, and host of the nationally syndicated radio show, Conversations with Consequences with EWTN. Her articles have been printed in numerous national news publications and she has appeared on major TV networks. She and her husband, Dr. Steven Christie, worked with EWTN to produce the informative abortion mini series, In a Pro Life Minute. They share five children, including one adopted child, and a passion for the sanctity of life that is lived out in their advocacy work.
Ashley McGuire is a Senior Fellow with The Catholic Association and co-host of the nationally syndicated radio show, Conversations with Consequences. She is also the author of the book, Sex Scandal: The Drive to Abolish Male and Female. She has written for numerous news outlets and spoken on major television networks, and serves as a prominent voice for the pro-life movement and religious liberty. She is also a mother of five children.
Madeleine Kearns is a journalist, writer, and associate editor at The Free Press. She has written for publications like The Spectator, The Wall Street Journal, The Catholic Herald and numerous others, and appeared on news outlets like BBC, Fox News, the Ben Shapiro Show, and the Megyn Kelly Show. Previously a staff writer at the National Review, she earned her degree in English from the University of St. Andrews. She obtained her postgraduate diploma in Education from the University of Glasgow and a Masters in Journalism from New York University. She lives with her husband in New York City.
Father Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and is the author of the book, Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the UN in New York. Father Landry traversed the full 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage this past summer and joined the historic Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis, an event which coincided with his 25th year in the priesthood. He was recently appointed the new National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 290 Transcript
| Grazie | Hello friends, and welcome to Conversations with Consequences. And we are the radio show and podcast of the Catholic Association where we aim to change the culture one conversation at a time. You can listen to conversations with consequences on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network Saturday mornings at 7 a.m. Eastern, or catch the encore at 5 p.m.. We are also on Sirius XM Channel 130. Of course, our radio show is always a podcast. Go to the Catholic Association, Dawgs podcasts, or directly to wherever you listen to your podcasts. |
| Ashley | Welcome to Conversations with Consequences. I'm Ashley McGuire of the Catholic Association. Thank you for joining me today. I'm very excited to talk to our guests today. We're very lucky to have her. She has written just an eye opening and alarming article about the thought police in the UK. Her name is Mattie Cairns and she is an associate editor at the Free Press. Mary, thanks for joining me today. |
| Madeleine Kearns | Thanks so much for having me. |
| Ashley | Mattie, your article is really frightening. It's it's about people who are arrested and intimidated and harassed for thinking and praying how these this is Orwellian and it's it's something we don't think of happening in the modern Western world. And yet you've written a several thousand word, exhaustively researched article about people being arrested outside of abortion clinics. So could you start by telling our listeners, what are these thought police censorship laws? And one of them, my understanding is, is going into effect today. So can you just sort of set the stage for our listeners about what what is happening with these laws? Sure. |
| Madeleine Kearns | So these abortion censorship zones are areas around abortion facilities where members of the public have been prohibited from doing anything that might quote unquote influence someone when it comes to abortion, and that that means both somebodys decision to access abortion, but also perhaps her decision to facilitate or provide an abortion. These started in 2014. So ten years ago, the government, the UK government, which was then the Conservative government, decided to allow local municipalities the power to create their own basically public nuisance laws. So this would be things like dog fouling or leaving piles of trash on the streets. And so they thought, let's just let this be a local thing. We'll give them the laws to basically have their own powers of authority to investigate and prosecute these local laws. The problem was that whether it was, there were no checks and balances. And so across the UK, we saw local authorities pass these abortion censorship zones where they're basically trying to treat pro-life volunteers the same way they would treat people who don't pick up after their dogs. And some of these these local laws explicitly steamrolled to absolute rights, absolute human rights, such as freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and even freedom of thought. And the way that they did this was they included in some of these local ordinances bans on praying at Bournemouth, which is in the south of England, had a ban on crossing yourself, if you can believe that, or sprinkling holy water. Not that that's really a common activity outside abortion clinics, but it got really, really specific. So these laws have been in place. The earliest one came into effect in 2018, and they've been used to prosecute people who have been standing outside abortion services, praying mostly. And before these laws came in, they were there to pray and every day to offer alternatives so they would have leaflets with them and say, you know, can we help you? And when the wall came into effect, they thought, okay, well, we can't be obvious and we can't sort of offer people help, but maybe we can stand there and we can do what we were always doing, which is silently pray. And so they went and tried to keep doing this. And there was a woman arrested. I'm sure some listeners will have will have followed this case. Isobel Von Spiritus, she was arrested twice, actually, for the same activity of silently praying. It saved an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Birmingham, England. And then there were some other people was a man convicted just two weeks ago for silently praying for his deceased child so that his unborn son, that he and his then girlfriend had decided to abort 20 years ago. And he'd he'd love to feel remorseful about this. And he was prosecuted and convicted under one of these laws in Bournemouth. There have been others, including a Catholic priest. So these are the local laws. Okay, so what's that got to do with the national laws? Okay, so the national laws came into effect first in Northern Ireland last year, and now they've come into effect in Scotland. That one came into effect in September. And in England and Wales, it's come into effect today. And so the one in Scotland, which I talk about in the piece is is even more egregious in some ways than the others in that residents nearby. The abortion facilities in Scotland have got letters through the door from the Scottish Government saying, please be advised that you now live within an abortion censorship zone. And so even activities within your own home may be criminal if it can be seen or heard. And if we think that you're doing it intentionally. So to give you an example of this, I spoke to a young woman who is very active in the pro-life activism, and she's she holds meetings in her apartment and she wears T-shirts that say things like pro-life and proud and she would unthinkingly, before this law should walk around her neighborhood, maybe saying the rosary holding rosary beads. And she's never worried. And I think she's right to be worried that these activities could be illegal under this new law if somebody sees them. And she's she she made the point to me where she said everything I do is intentional when it comes to being pro-life. Like, it's not like I'm accidentally pro-life. I'm very intentional about it. And so she's she's concerned that she could be criminally liable. So, yeah, it's it's very Orwellian. People, I think, don't appreciate just how far the law has overreached. And so what I was trying to do in my article is just to shed light on the fact that citizens in the UK have been arrested and prosecuted and they've been convicted for silently praying outside abortion clinics. |
| Ashley | We're speaking with Mattie Cairns, who is the author of the recent article entitled She Was Arrested for Praying in Her Head. Mary, you tell so many great stories that are I mean, they're not great. They're they're they're they're terrifying, but just very vivid stories of these citizens who, as you've documented, have been arrested or harassed for doing basic things. Tell us tell us about Father Go. He was one who I just you know, everything from a bumper sticker on his car to, you know, tell us about him. Because I felt like he really animated exactly what's going on and how absurd things have gotten with this with this abortion censorship law. |
| Madeleine Kearns | Yes. So, Father, the father go. Father Shango was convicted or prosecuted, rather, under one of these local laws in Birmingham, England. And the four charges that the they waged against him, where first two counts of silent prayer, one count of parking his car within the abortion censorship zone. And his car had a pro-life bumper sticker on it, said unborn lives matter. So that was an offense. And then the the fourth one was a time when the abortion clinic was closed. So there were no staff there. There were no there were no women there. He had gone outside it with a sign saying praying for free speech. And that was that was all he was doing. He was standing outside praying for free speech, holding signs saying praying for free speech. And that's to was was a charge that he had violated the abortion censorship zone. And he had said, well, no, because on that occasion I was not. I was not protesting abortion, which is illegal. I was simply protesting the abortion censorship. So and in this intricate circular conversation with the police, so eventually the charges against him, well, actually, he he went he went to trial and he was acquitted of all these charges. But it did have a chilling effect on him anyway, because I think it was a very stressful experience for him, for his parishioners. And he he tells me he no longer does this work. He does other pro-life activities, but he doesn't go outside the the abortion clinics because of just all the stress that was involved. But the other thing that was really interesting and concerning to me about father father ghost story was he shared with me and I did I don't think he realized how significant it was, but he shared with me that while he'd been standing outside the clinic silently praying, quite often locals, pro-choice locals, would come up and and show abuse at him and so I asked him, Do you have any examples? And he said, Well, I probably have some very or slightly said that he was, and he sent me this video and I was really quite shocked. There was a man came up to him and father told me that this man had been harassing pro-life volunteers on multiple occasions. And he came up to him and he swore and said like really terrible things. Your listeners, if they're curious, can can check. In my case, there's there's a video embedded in the piece called them you know, all sorts of names. It was quite clear that he was aggravated by father Golf being a Catholic priest. He had had some nasty things to say about that as well. But the thing that really got me was he says at one point, I'll rip, rip out your F-ing throat. Now, this is really interesting because this short encounter under British law would appear to constitute multiple criminal offenses. There's harassment, there's common assault, There's making someone afraid of immediate unlawful violence. That's that's a criminal offense in the United Kingdom. And because of the religious factors, they seem to be religiously aggravated. This is a more serious offense. And so if this individual was convicted of any one of these, then he could be looking at two years in jail. And so Fothergill went to the police, the same police that are prosecuting him for his his silent prayers and his bumper sticker and his free speech sign. And he said and he and he has a video. Right. So it's got very hard evidence and it shows at least he says, you know, this individual has been harassing me and threatening me and others. What are you going to do about it? Could you could you press charges and the police just basically treated the whole thing very lightly. They they asked the individual involved to send father, father a letter of apology, which is a very strange thing for the police to do. I mean, the police enforcing the law are these sort of like playground attendants. It's very strange. But they did this. They they they they told him to do this. And this letter arrived six months later. And it's I mean, again, you look look in the piece, but it's it doesn't really seem like the most sincere apology I've ever read. It begins. Dear sir, Madam, for starters. And then it says something to the effect of I'm paraphrasing here, but something to the effect of I'm, I'm sorry. Things escalated and you felt threatened. That wasn't my intention. You know, it's it's hard to hard to think what your intention was when you threatened to repeat somebody's stroke. But, you know, it's certainly, I think, making them feel threatened. That seems to be pretty clearly the intention. In any case, a father finally just let the matter drop. But to me, this is an example of what many people in the UK complain about. There's this idea of two tier policing where people with unpopular views be they in this case pro-life people, in other cases, perhaps people who are skeptical of transgenderism and other cases, people who are perhaps skeptical of mass immigration, whatever it is, those people are treated way, way more harshly than those with favorable views. And that might be, for instance, pro-Palestine protesters or LGBT groups or whatever it is, whatever happens to be in vogue with with the government and with popular culture seems to get favorable treatment. And that's obviously completely flies in the face of the principles of of equal justice under the law. |
| Ashley | You know, I would think that police officers would be sort of embarrassed to be, you know, I mean, questioning people to the effect of what are you praying, what are you thinking in your head right now? Is there is there any did you get any sense that the police feel like this is kind of undermining their role and. |
| Madeleine Kearns | Or and. |
| Ashley | Also, is there any kind of pushback from society? I mean, this is so Orwellian. Do you get the sense that there's any resistance to this in society or any sense that, you know, this is something that could be turned on a dime and and and used weaponized against them if they if they start thinking the quote unquote, wrong thing or praying the wrong prayers. |
| Madeleine Kearns | Great. Two very good questions. I'll take them in turn. So the first question about are the police embarrassed? I think the police, like any you know, any employer, it it's comprised of people who have mixed mixed range of views. And certainly there are plenty of examples of police who seem uncomfortable or confused by these laws. And in fact, one of the things they talk about in the piece is the fact that the law is not consistently enforced. And that's because I think to your point, some police are like, this is sort of ridiculous. What am I doing? I've got I've got better things to be doing. So, for instance, Father Goff was told by police when they were called first, the police are called. They have to show up, make sure everything's okay. Father, initially, please told Father Goff what you're doing is perfectly legal. Carry on. You're fine. The same with Adam Smith. Connor, who was the man who was convicted just a couple of weeks ago. Initially, police were called and they said, this is England, You're free to do that. You know, carry on. But then different officers should take a different view. And sometimes I think there is a bit of the a touch of the the busybody, you know, give give somebody a small amount of power and they just abuse it. This is this is human corruption that we can see across any industry or employment. That's also certainly we've seen that. And the police can be sort of foolish and intrusive and sort of seem to almost be enjoying themselves, grilling people about the contents of their thoughts or the nature of their prayer. It's very, very strange. So it's the way the war is written. It invites people who would abuse power to abuse power. And that is one of the biggest problems with it. To your your other question about is there a societal pushback? I'm afraid to say not really. No. Part of the reason for this and part of the reason I really thought that it was really important to do this piece is that it's the coverage is just so one sided. And so you would get the impression, reading the mainstream media in the US where it covers it. And in the UK especially, you would get the impression that what's going on outside abortion clinics is women being harassed, women being threatened or abused start all these wild allegations. But what was really, again concerning to me is that when I looked into these allegations, I couldn't find any evidence for them. In fact, the police, the police's own data, which was obtained through fire and and the free press was able to get hold of shows. It shows that there's actually in those specific cases, there really is no evidence of this, the kind of activities going on outside abortion place are more volunteering. And before the law was changed it was it was offering offering women alternate lives. Some women accept the alternatives and they're very grateful for them. I spoke to some of those women as well, totally left outside of the of the narrative on this. So so yeah, this is just completely one sided. The government's own report in 2017, by the way, confirmed what I just said, which is the investigated it. They couldn't find any evidence that harassment and abuse was going on. By the way, harassment and abuse are already illegal under preexisting British law, had been illegal for four decades. And the fact they've been legal for decades and the fact that there have been no to my knowledge and I really looked into this, there have been no related arrests of pro-life volunteers, just again, shows how overreaching this law is. But a lot of the public just simply don't realize it because they've been they've been fed a totally biased and oftentimes just flagrantly inaccurate version of events. And so they think, yeah, of course, women going to have an abortion like they shouldn't be Sparta or jailed out of court. I'm 100% agree with that. Of course, harassment should be illegal, but the point is it already is illegal. And this is this law goes way, way further, these local way further. It's not just about protecting women from harassment. They're already protected from harassment. It's about policing people's thoughts. It's about making sure that people cannot have access to alternatives, which is really just awful. I mean, what of the women I was speaking to is on an immigrant and she moved to the UK and she's from India and her and her husband were living in one room with their daughter. She was pregnant. She was really concerned or living paycheck to paycheck. She goes to her her physician, her primary care doctor, and she says, you know, I'm really worried about this pregnancy. I don't know how we're going to afford a baby right now. And the doctor gives her a leaflet with one choice, and the choice is abortion. And so she she picks the appointment. She's really, really sad about it. She doesn't want an abortion. She she thinks it's her only choice. And then she goes to the clinic. This is this is before these laws came into effect, she goes to the clinic. She meets a pro-life volunteer. The pro-life volunteer. So can we can we help you in any way? She says, Yeah. She starts crying. She says, Well, she doesn't see that. Yes. She says, No, but nobody can help me. I don't know what to do. And they say, No, really, we can help you. And it took her while to sort of trust them, but they introduced her to other moms. They've helped. And anyway, I'll cut long story short, but basically they ended up paying this woman's rent or helping to pay this woman's rent for five years. And you think, who else in our society is going to do that? The government's not going to do it. She's an immigrant. She doesn't have access to welfare. Are the poor pro-abortion groups going to do that? No, certainly not. And so you think actually, even if you want to just take this ad at a free speech issue, even if you want to say to people who are pro-choice, surely being pro-choice means you're pro-choice up until the moment the woman has the abortion. Right. And so this is another side of the story that I think is just not told. |
| Ashley | Well, you you tell it wonderfully. And the story of Sonia, who you just mentioned, I thought was just unbelievable, the way that not not only were you unable to find evidence that women are being harassed, but actually they're being helped to the point that, you know, they're being taken care of for four years after choosing to have a baby. Maddy, we're almost out of time. But I'm just curious, you know, the the people that you interview are already being harassed by the actual thought police and facing all kinds of, you know, bizarre, Orwellian intimidation. Was it was it hard to find? And you have so many you spoke with so many people. Was it hard to find people who were willing to speak up or were or people eager to tell their stories and not worried about further retribution? |
| Madeleine Kearns | Well, I think people who are undergoing, you know, people who have current or past trials and they they're already you know, they're already in legal trouble at that point. And I think it's helpful for them to get their side of the story out there. So certainly those people were willing to talk to me that there was there was another young woman that I mentioned previously who I did talk to who didn't want her name to be mentioned because she's worried that it could it could result in a police investigation. This is the woman who lives within an abortion censorship zone who is pro-life and and wear T-shirts that say, see as much and goes about the neighborhood praying. She is she is concerned that she may be found criminally liable for those activities. And so those people are very reluctant to speak out. And I think this goes to the point of of just how chilling these laws are, because really the process is the punishment. And it's that way by design. It's so stressful for people and for their families. I mean, the guy who was convicted last two weeks ago was was ordered to pay £9,000, which is about, I don't know, like $13,000 in or $11,000 in legal fees, you know, so so it is a hugely stressful thing that the Scottish law says people can be fined up to £10,000. And and the English law has an unlimited fine. So, you know, in theory, in theory, you could lose everything for for violating one of these laws. And so really it is it is something where I think people will just just stop, stop doing it. They'll go without outside the zone. One of the women I was talking to who runs a pro-life group in in London was saying, you know, since we've moved since this this law came into effect, this is one of the local laws and we've had to move outside the zone. Are our numbers have dropped to about 15%. The number of interactions that we have with women. And bear in mind that that these 1 to 1 personal encounters are so, so important for building the relationship of trust, which is necessary for people to accept help. And so if there following about 50%, you do you do think there will be women who fall through the cracks or will be women who are going into their abortion appointment really, really reluctantly, who would love the opportunity to to take take a last minute offer of help. And no, they're just not they're not going to meet them. And it's really, really sad. |
| Ashley | Well, we thank you so much for shedding light on this just chilling story. It's it's a story that everyone needs to hear and read. You can find Matt's article at the Free Press. Matty, where else can they find your work and can they follow you on social media? |
| Madeleine Kearns | Yeah. So I'm on Twitter and it's Madeleine Cairns. AM at Ironi and in Cairns, KTAR in SE and yeah, the free press in there is great. I encourage everybody to come as a subscriber to the free Press. You won't regret it. |
| Ashley | Well, thank you so much for your time again and thank you. Wow, what an eye opening conversation with our guest, Mary Kearns, author of the article. She was arrested for praying in her own head. It's it's frightening to think that in the year 2024, you know, in the in the western world, we have the police the actual thought police in in a place like the UK and and yet they do it makes you you know makes me all the more grateful for the free speech protections that we have here in this country. And speaking of, you know, our rights and this country, we now have the results of the election that we've all been waiting on and praying about for four years, really. And it was a decisive victory for Donald Trump. And I think, you know, I'm also grateful that it was a decisive victory, that we have a clear outcome, I think, that allows this country to start to move forward and, you know, there's some really interesting takeaways. We're about to have a conversation with the whole team about about the results of this election. But one of the things I'm looking forward to talking about is the Catholic vote. Very, very interesting to see Catholics move in double digits in some places like Michigan for President Trump. And I don't think that that's an accident. I think and I'm sure we'll talk more about this together here, but I, I do think that Kamala Harris's bigoted record against Catholics saying that you can't be in the Knights of Columbus and be a judge sending a video to the Al Smith dinner mocking Catholic schoolgirls. Catholics noticed that. They noticed that and they voted accordingly. And I'm really looking forward to talking with my fellow Catholic Association ladies about about what that means. |
| Grazie | Every morning, the Catholic Association reviews all the latest news and sends our subscribers a carefully curated collection of the most important news of the day. Items are specifically selected for a smart Catholic audience like you Don't let the world take you by surprise. Subscribe to our daily media roundup at the Catholic Association dot org. Welcome back to Conversations with Consequences. I'm your host is Dr. Gracie Christie, joined by my co-host, Ashley Maguire. Welcome to the show, Ashley. |
| Ashley | Hey, Gracie. |
| Grazie | So many good things to talk about. I am very excited in this post that I'm in a post-election afterglow. I sound like a Taylor Swift song. I'm in an afterglow of this post-election. I'm in a state of joy because personally in Florida, I've been working really hard against an abortion deregulation amendment that we actually defeated. We squeaked out an actual a narrow victory, but we did it. It was David against Goliath. And I am so thankful to God that he has allowed us to work so hard and succeed, because I know that in other states people have worked really hard and have failed. But Florida is a wonderful state and it deserves it deserves to not have Amendment four shackled to our to our ankles, making abortion, elective abortion legal through all 40 weeks of pregnancy, making Florida an abortion mecca, putting so many girls and women in terrible danger from deregulation. So I just couldn't be more thankful. |
| Ashley | I know, Grace, you usually ask the questions, but you played such an instrumental role in this campaign, and I think our listeners would love to hear just a little bit more about this amazing success and victory for life and for mothers. I, I know I saw on Twitter somewhere someone say that, you know, finally Florida broke the losing streak. We've just had a really sort of painful streak of losses with these state ballot initiative moves. And Florida, that was one of the first announcements last night and in the election was that Florida had defeated this really extreme measure. So, you know, as someone who is totally boots on the ground with this for months, what do you attribute the success to? |
| Grazie | Well, first of all, you're totally correct. We were so aware that defeating this amendment in Florida, it was so important nationwide, because Florida is a very big, very consequential state. We know that the abortion industry really had Florida in its in its target in its eye. You know, it really wanted to win in Florida because it would be a sign to the rest of the country that abortion was unstoppable, big abortion was unstoppable. And even a state like Florida, which is so well-organized under under Governor DeSantis and and is now a very conservative state, now no longer a purple state, even a state like Florida could be overturned and made into, you know, an abortion wonderland. So we were we worked very hard for many months. I would say what I saw was real concerted teamwork across across all the different types of players. So the government efforts under Governor DeSantis, first of all, were well-organized, intense. You I don't know if people were paying attention, Governor DeSantis, until the very last moment, was crisscrossing the state, having pressers, delivering statements, appearing with doctors like me and my husband, making, you know, the case against amendment four in a smart way, in an organized way, in a in a in a way that was that was passionate and showed his his real pro-life commitment. And then even more important than that, he organized he cause his the state's efforts to be, you know, extremely organized, well delivered in the hands of great people. And then those people connected with faith based efforts across the state. And so I was connected to the government campaign. I was also connected on the side of of the the Florida Council of Bishops. I helped with the evangelical churches. Everyone participated together. We held hands and we went forward. And there wasn't any of this bickering. This is my turf, and that's your turf, that people really got it all together and worked together. And I saw that in action. I was so impressed. And I think that's why we won. Even yesterday, even the day of the election, I went to the I went to our local polling place where we I know everybody we live in a very small community. Many of us were we had arranged a bunch of people from our church to take turns to come out and hold signs against Amendment four. And all of our signs were homemade because we had invested in some signs. But every time we put a sign on one of our yards, somebody would come and remove it and steal it. We couldn't we could not keep them in our yards. So by the time Election Day rolled around, we were down to homemade signs. But we were out there. We had made one of those sign up geniuses and we we were out there holding signs. The other side was so well-funded, but they weren't there because of love and passion. They were there because somebody had paid them. I don't know what they pay him per hour, but I knew this. There were three or four young women all wearing the same exact t shirt, wearing, you know, carrying these exact signs, very professional looking young women who were definitely paid by by big abortion to come and stand there with signs. So I would say to you, what happened in Florida was real passion, real love, real fraternity amongst all the different all the different, you know, cohorts of people that wanted to fight against Amendment four. We all work together and and we made it. And I'm not going to lie. We we barely made it. We I think the final tally is something like 42.8% of the vote was on was on the right side. Thankfully, we have a 60% threshold to pass an amendment here in Florida. So, yes, there's a lot of work to be done. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in our state. But the other side blanket of the airwaves with lies, misinformation, heartstrings, campaigns full of, you know, weird situations where they were just playing to to people's emotions. So, yeah, we did it. But there's more to be done. |
| Ashley | Well, let's hope that, you know, we know that we're not done with these these battles at the state level. So let's hope that, you know, future campaigns can look to Florida as a model of success and, you know, one thing I noticed when I was down there visiting you in Florida was we walked into a Catholic church, and one of the first things I saw was a gigantic six foot billboard ad about this issue. And that's not typically what you see when you walk into a Catholic church is like a very clear statement on a political issue. And I think there's been a lot of scaremongering like, separation of church and state when in fact, no, actually churches and houses of worship are absolutely welcome and completely free to speak the truth about the way their faith intersects with political issues. And so, you know, I've heard that the church, the Catholic Church was really great. Yeah. Was that your experience? |
| Grazie | my gosh. I was beyond impressed. I've been a very actively involved parishioner and also actively involved in at the level of the archdiocese on education. And I've worked on many projects with with the Archbishop and different different teams that he's put together on different issues. And I have never seen a concerted, organized, top down direction like I saw happen with a member for the Florida Council of Bishops. Decided together, every church in Florida, every Catholic church in Florida is going to fight Amendment four. And it really wasn't a choice. And I'm sure there's churches led by pastors who are more averse to standing up for the dignity of life or they're more careful of of the feelings of their pro-choice parishioners. But in my experience, all across the state, the churches came through. I for instance, I gave a talk at I was invited to give a talk at the yearly the priests convocation of the archdiocese, where they all get together once a year. And they they do like a retreat. And I was invited to give a talk. I spoke to every piece of the archdiocese at length, an amendment for, you know, giving them the information that they needed to convey to their parishioners. I was so proud of the church in Florida. |
| Ashley | Well, you know, that's so interesting, because we had the same a very similar ballot initiative here in Maryland where I live, which is I apparently learned last night is one of the bluest states in the country. |
| Grazie | And that was a little scary, actually. |
| Ashley | So I, of my own volition, just asked our parish priest if I could speak about our amendment after every single mass a weekend or two ago. And thankfully, I you know, he's a wonderful priest who's, you know, very passionate about these things. And he let me speak. And I was curious to see what kind of reaction I was going to get, because Montgomery County, where I live, is very pro-choice, very left wing. And with the exception of one mass, after every single mass, everybody erupted into applause. There you go. Which which And it made me think, gosh, a missed opportunity because, you know, if we had somebody at every single parish in this state do the same talk, and I would have been willing to travel to parishes, could we potentially have had a different outcome? And I don't in any way mean to, you know, point fingers at the church there. You know, there's that. |
| Grazie | But again, this was a decision that that this happened in Florida because the Florida Council of Bishops got together and they made a directive and they they put it into every archdiocese across Florida. They said, this is what you need to do. You need to have mass announcements, pulpit announcements. You have to preach on it. They sent out like they had a whole toolkit that was sent out for everybody to use. So this was a top down approach. This was not dependent on someone like you or I who are always, you know, always have our fingers in every pie. And we. Father, let me help you with this. Let me show up at every mass. No, this was top down. And I do believe that the church, if we are to really evangelize our country and draw ourselves back from the brink of being, you know, a huge abortion country, which is where we're going at this rate, the church has to be that active like we have been in Florida. |
| Ashley | Well, you know, maybe the the bishops conference in Florida is is also a model for these future states where, you know, I don't know. It's just these are interesting times, but it's it's very interesting and encouraging to hear your experience there and to see that when we really do mobilize, we can move the needle for life. And so that's and. |
| Grazie | You know, let me say something else. Very a lot of Catholics came out against Kamala Harris, 56%, according to The Washington Post. |
| Ashley | Yeah, that's what I was about to say. Speaking of moving the needle, we we appear to have moved the needle or rather Kamala Harris being a total anti-Catholic. Do you think that's what she is? Well, I think it's a few things. I mean, she didn't. Not only did she not even try to court the Catholics, but she kind of went out of her way to insult us all the way to the very end. I mean, her you know, her video, first of all, not going to the Al Smith dinner is totally irregular. Even Obama, who was kind of virulently it wasn't. |
| Grazie | That was an act of malpractice, political malpractice. |
| Ashley | You know, even he went and and not only did she not go, but the video that she sent was so off key and cringe and, as you've pointed out, mocked something kind of sacred, which is the Catholic schoolgirl, you know, And then that interview that she did also might have been within the same week where she it was like she was tripping on herself to interrupt her interviewer who was kind of trying to dangle her a symbolic. But please, you believe in concessions for, you know, exceptions for religious liberty with abortion. And she just jumped right in there and said, no, no concessions. And but, you know. |
| Grazie | What about actually, what about that rally? Somebody else Jesus saves? She immediately responds, You're at the wrong rally. |
| Ashley | wow, I missed that. |
| Grazie | no, that was that was that was great. That was great to me. That was one of those moments of like, you know what? Tell us you don't like religious Americans without telling us? You don't like religious Americans. |
| Ashley | Yeah. I mean, you know, somebody dug up the picture of her dancing on stage with the those horrible anti-Catholic bigot sister perpetual indulgence. |
| Grazie | Guys who dress like not. |
| Ashley | Under nuns, you know. And it was like that was the picture being circulated around the Internet three days before the election. And somebody pointed out to me because Michigan, for example, which is a state that I was born in, has a solid Catholic contingency, went to Catholics, went 20 points for Trump. And somebody pointed out to me that it's not because they care about the Al Smith dinner. Let's be real. That's like the elites it was. They don't like seeing people diss the Knights of Columbus because, you know, blue collar workers in Michigan, you know, the Knights of Columbus is a service organization. It's a men's it's a it's a wonderful men's organization. And I'm sure that they have a huge presence in the state of Michigan where, you know, these men who are working in factories and driving trucks. I mean, that's that's their club, that's their group. And those are men. |
| Grazie | Yeah. This is how they spend, you know, super valuable, fabulous time with other men doing good in the community like boots on the ground in their communities, collecting coats for poor children. They don't have winter coats. I mean, this this is the salt of the earth. And Kamala Harris is reflexively just reflexively, just can't understand it. She just can't understand that it's like she has this huge blind spot in her head. |
| Ashley | Well, yeah. And, you know, as she I think I think Catholics did a good job of not letting her run away from the fact that when she was a senator, she suggested in a totally blind spot way that to be a judge, you revoke your Knights of Columbus membership. So basically, you can you can be a judge, but you can't be a Catholic. And that I think we did not let her get with that. And, you know, this person was pointing out to me that that may have been the thing that really persuaded Catholic voters that she's no friend of ours. She's if you're willing to to propose that, that you're you're a threat. |
| Grazie | And now we debate. And now instead of well, we've had a Catholic in the White House for some time. President Biden, who has his rosary beads but has he came out strong for abortion? Real strong for abortion, real strong for transgenderism and other things that took out that are anathema. So as Catholics. But now we're going to have a Catholic vice president. And J.D. Vance, I he's he's a recent convert, relatively recent convert. And I think he probably has a lot of learning to do about Catholic social teaching. But I do feel that that this is a good thing for us. It's a good thing for American Catholics that that I think the next four years we're going to have more respect for religious freedom, more just more sense, more sensible policies that make sense to Catholics who are really just people, you know, who get up in the morning, try to educate their children as best as they can, put food on the table again, salt of the earth. |
| Ashley | Now, I think that's totally true. I that's a really good point. You know, he's an intellectual and he's a Catholic who I think, you know, there's definitely like a kind of a realignment going on with the party. And, you know, he's one of these these Republicans who's interested in promoting policies that help families and that cater to just everyday Americans, as you said, who are just trying to educate their children, trying to put food on the table. And, you know, his rise to was, you know, being the guy who wanted to help them do that. And so bringing Catholicism into the fold with all that, I think could be good for potentially even removing some of these polarizing labels out of Catholicism, because that's not what we're really about. Like, what we're ultimately about is the common good and, you know, promoting the dignity of all people. And so this is an opportunity. A it's a political opportunity to apply those values in a new way and then a new very much realigned political setting. |
| Grazie | Well, there's certainly we've experienced a seismic shift in American politics, and it's going to be reflected in everything we talk about from here on and on, conversations with consequences. So thank you for joining me today, Ashley. And we barely scratched the surface of a tremendous night for life here in Florida. And in general, I think for for for for better governance and and lots of lots of good things going forward for for all of America. |
| Ashley | Thanks, Gracie. |
| Grazie | And now, Father Roger Landry offers us, as is customary, a short and inspiring homily to prepare us for this Sunday's gospel. |
| Fr. Landry | His father, Fr. Landry. And it's a privilege for me to be with you as we enter into the consequential conversation, there is a more just want to have with each of us this Sunday during these days after the national elections, when we're looking ahead to the changes coming soon, Jesus helps us to focus on things that are of perennial importance, not just to ourselves, our families and the church, but also to our country and to the type of service we Catholics are meant to provide. Today, Jesus helps us concentrate in the generosity were called to give in imitation of his own. Last week, as you remember, Jesus told us clearly what the first and greatest commandment is, the most important thing we have to do in life to love God with all our mind, heart, soul and strength. Love, as we know, is more than merely words and feelings, but is shown and deeds. Love is choosing to act for the good of another, sacrificing oneself for someone or something else. This Sunday Jesus presents us with a standard to help us to determine in our concrete circumstances whether we're really trying to love God with all we are and have. After Jesus had finished his formal teaching in the courtyard of the Temple of Jerusalem, he began to people watch in order to instruct his apostles about how to put what he was teaching into action. They saw the stream of people depositing money. The Temple Treasury, which was a large tube shaped receptacle leading downward in a spiral to a secure money box. People would put their coins in the horn, the top, which was like a funnel, and then the sound of the coins would resonate as they rolled down the metal tubing into the box. Many rich people say, Mark tells us, We're putting in large sums and making a lot of noise in the treasury tube. But then a poor widow came and put in two left, two small, super thin coins that together were worth about a penny and likely barely made a sound. Jesus gave a surprising lesson that the disciples obviously never forgot. He praised the poor widow rather than all the rest, saying that she had contributed more than all of them. For they, he said, gave out of their surplus. But she gave everything she had, all she had to live on this widow because of her poverty could easily have been excused for giving nothing where she could have just chosen to drop into the tuba. One of the left and kept the other for herself. But she gave all and her generosity was praised by Jesus and will remain famous until the end of time. We can ask what could have moved her to give to the temple, even what she needed to survive. There's only one reason her deep faith. She believed not just that God exists or that He worked various miracles in the past to help her people. She believed so much in him and was so convinced of the importance of what was going on in God's house that she wanted to dedicate her life and all her goods to continuing and expanding it. She counted to continue. It's an expansion of that saving work worth more than even her own life. The truth is that the stronger our faith, the more we're willing to trust in God. And the more we're willing to sacrifice, the more we love God. With all our mind, our soul and strength, the more we will give of ourselves and what we have to the advance of his work. The first apostles moved by faith in Jesus love fishing business. Lucrative tax collection seeks to follow Christ, even though they would have like Jesus. No bread, no money, no bag, no change of clothes, and no place to lay their head. The early Christians is reading the ax to the apostles used to sell their property and lay the proceeds at the feet of the Apostles in order to share with those in most need and advance the proclamation of the Gospel. We don't have to go back 2000 years to Palestine to come up with such examples. We can think about the building of so many parishes in the United States, like three of those where I was assigned in Massachusetts, where poor immigrants offered to God not only sizable portions of their paltry paychecks, but also so much of their elbow grease coming before and after work to assist hired masons, engineers and architects to save the church money so that more of what they raised could be spent constructing to God's glory a church far more beautiful. Unlike in Europe, the church in the United States was not built by rich people putting in large sums, but by poor immigrants, forsaking savings and going without vacations in order together to build something worthy or of God, something they had expressed their faith and then made concrete that they loved him more than they loved even themselves. It's important that we have a consequential conversation with the Lord about how we use the money and resources of which He has made us stewards. Like with the widow in the Gospel. Jesus wants us to be able she wants to be able to praise each and all of us for our generosity. This is just not an economic issue on the basis of which parishes, schools and other church institutions will be maintained, survive and thrive. But far more importantly, a moral issue, since, as economists tell us how we spend our money is a sign of what we value. The Great Presbyterian biblical commentator William Barclay, who used to be recommended all the time to priest by Archbishop Fulton, Gene commented on this gospel scene Real generosity gives until it hurts. For many of us, it's a real question of our giving to God's work as any sacrifice at all. Few people will do without their pleasures to give a little more to the work of God. It may well be that this sign of decadence of the church and the failure of our Christianity that gifts have to be coaxed out of church people and that often they won't give at all unless they get something back in the way of entertainment or of goods. There can be few of us who read this story of the poor widow without shame, he concluded. Today's teaches us that it's not so much the size of the contribution that matters, but the sacrifice that the gift entails, the relatively small value and priority that many Catholics, by their economic choices, give to the mission of the church is one of the principal reasons why the church in the United States is suffering. Even in areas in which the church can easily pay its bills and care for the needy. The reason is, as Jesus tells us elsewhere in the gospel, because the measure with which we measure will be measured back to us. In other words, if we give generously, will receive generously. If we give sparingly, we will receive sparingly. This is not because God withholds His grace from the stingy, but because the human heart is a two way street. If a person's heart is open and generous than it's capable of receiving from God the blessings God wishes to give. If it's tight and miserly, on the other hand, then very little of God's grace will be able to penetrate. We cannot serve both God, ma'am, and Jesus stresses. And if we are even partially trying to serve Mammon, that part of us will atrophy in its receptivity to God. We say this encapsulated in the episode of The Rich Young Man and the Gospel, about whom we spoke a month ago. He came to Jesus and asked him the most important question one can ask how to inherit eternal life. Lord told me to keep the commandments and enlisted him. The rich young man replied that he had kept all of them since his youth, but still realized he was missing something in order to be happy. The Lord looked on him with love and said that if you wish to be perfectly happy, he to go sell all that he had, give the proceeds to the poor and then come follow him. At that we remember the young man's face fell to the ground and he walked away sad faced with the choice between Jesus and his money, between true happiness and transient wealth. The rich young man chose his money and went away sad because money can't ever buy happiness in the same way. If we wish to, to receive the fullness of the grace as Christ wants to give us in this life and in the next. Then we, unlike the rich young man, need to detach ourselves from our possessions, from our money, and devote them, all of them, to the sake of the kingdom. We see this in the lives of so many young people who went to the priesthood in religious life, working for very little pay or none at all, because they are working ultimately for God. We see it in missionaries who forsake the comforts of life in the United States in order to travel to undeveloped parts of the world to share the faith. We see it in focus missionaries on university campuses in our country who dedicate two or more years of their life raising their own funds in order to share the gospel on campus. We see it in many Catholic individuals and families who, despite all of their bills, sacrifice their time, gifts, material blessings to prioritize the kingdom of the one who gave them everything to strengthen his church and to care for the poor. On the other hand, if we like the rich, young men continue to want to hold on to our money and stuff, then it's likely we will walk away from Jesus. Sad too. For it is only in giving that we receive in this illustration the importance of generosity. Jesus, like in all his lessons, never said, Just do what I say, but always follow me. Today's encounter with the poor widow was sandwiched between last week's instruction on Loving God with all our mind had soul and strength in next week's prophecy about the last days, immediately afterwards. Mark moves us to the Passover, the Last Supper, and Jesus crucifixion and death. In other words, this teaching about generosity developed between Christ, teaching about total Self-Giving love. His putting those words into practice on Calvary and our remembering the fact that we'll be judged on our generosity in Jesus, calling us to give not just what is extra, but what is essential, not just what is left over, but what is right. He's telling us just to love others as he has loved us all the way, holding nothing back. He gave his life in exchange for ours, valuing us more than he valued himself. As he comes this Sunday to strengthen us to do this in memory of him. We ask him to make us as generous as he is, to open our hearts fully to the gift of His grace, to help us to love him with all our mind, heart, soul, strength and possessions so that we and many others we might be able to help encounter him through our generosity, might experience his happiness in this world and forever. This life of Christian generosity of self-giving to God in others is the best way we will help renew our culture and country after last Tuesday's elections. God bless you all. |
| Grazie | Thank you so much for another exceptional homily. Father Landry, To check out more from Father Roger Landry, make sure to read all of his writings at the National Catholic Register at NC Register dot com. And you can listen to his homilies at Catholic Preaching. We hope to have you back next week. And until then, we go with our prayers. |