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Episode Description
After a historic meeting between Pope Leo XIV and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Gary Marx joins to shed light on the missing children of Ukraine. The host of the Peace & Power Ukraine podcast recounts the kidnapping of nearly 35,000 children, some of whom he has helped to rescue, and discusses the role the Catholic Church can have in bringing about peace.
We also talk with Father Brian Barr and Jordan Bernhardi of Beach Catholic about a movement taking place along the shores of Long Island, NY, where hundreds head weekly to Sunday mass on the water. Over 1,300 people attended last week’s mass and more than 50,000 have participated since the program first began.
Msgr. Roger Landry shares poignant insights on the life of Mother Cabrini as we mark the 175th anniversary of her birth. The first American citizen to be canonized, Mother Cabrini is known for her dedication to helping immigrants and establishing schools, orphanages, hospitals and numerous other charitable organizations.
Bios
Gary Marx is President of Madison Strategies, LLC which he launched in 2013, and the Concord Fund, a conservative advocacy organization previously known as the Judicial Crisis Network. He formerly served as the Executive Director to the Faith and Freedom Coalition. He is President of Defenders of Faith and Religious Freedom in Ukraine, a prominent advocate for religious liberty and principles of democracy. He has held numerous political posts including Senior Advisor to Scott Walker for President, Marco Rubio for President, and Conservative Coalitions Director at the 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters. A veteran speaker and presenter, he has appeared in hundreds of interviews with prominent media outlets including CNN, CBN, CSPAN and FOX NEWS. He holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science from James Madison University and a Master’s in Political Management from Regent University.
Father Brian Barr is a priest of the Diocese of Rockville Centre, and serves as pastor of St. Mary of the Isle Church in Long Beach, New York. He is Director of Vocations, where he is responsible for guiding men in the process of discerning a vocation to the priesthood. A native of Long Island, he attended Cornell University where he earned a degree in Industrial and Labor Relations. In May of 1993 he was ordained into the priesthood, serving as associate pastor to the Parish of St. Thomas of the Apostle in West Hempstead. He was appointed chaplain of St. Anthony’s High School and in 2004 became Director of Campus Ministry, providing a Catholic presence in secular colleges and universities in the diocese. He has worked with Beach Catholic for the past eight years, a weekly Mass presented publicly in Long Island.
Jordan Bernhardi is Director of Operations at Beach Catholic, a tri-parish community entering its 11th year of hosting weekly Mass on the beach of Long Island during the summer months – an event which is drawing thousands of locals and visitors, and being hailed as a revival. He previously served as Assistant Media Coordinator for the non-profit. Prior to that he was the Project Manager for Startup Catholic, as well as a teacher of Religion at Long Beach Catholic School. He earned his Bachelor of Science in Business and Television from Hofstra University, and his Masters of Ecclesial Administration and Management from the Catholic University of America.
Monsignor Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and is the author of the book, Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the United Nations in New York. Father Landry traversed the full 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage in 2024 and joined the historic Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis, an event which coincided with his 25th year in the priesthood. In 2024, he was appointed the new National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA by Pope Francis.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 326 Transcript
| Mary/Ashley | Welcome back to Conversations with Consequences. I'm your hostess, Mary Fiorito, and I'm Ashley McGuire. And we are pleased to have with us today Gary Marx, who serves as the host of the Peace and Power Ukraine podcast with the federal News Service. And he is the former president of the organization called Defenders of Faith and Religious Freedom in Ukraine. And Gary, we are so grateful for your time today to focus on Ukraine, especially this incredibly shocking and troubling news of 20,000 missing Ukrainian children. So welcome to the show and thank you for your time today. |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, thank you for your time and attention, ladies, and focusing on this important issue. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, last week, Pope Leo met with President Zelensky of Ukraine about the ongoing war that began in 2022. And speaking to reporters as he left the Holy Father's villa, Zelensky said that he thanked the Holy Father for the Vatican's efforts to help reunite children taken by Russia after Moscow's invasion. And he asked for continued help and prayers to get back our children stolen by Russia during this war. Tell us about these missing children, Gary. What what are their ages? Where do we think they are? What is happening to them? This is incredibly troubling. |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, it really is. And I think all of us are heartened to see this new pope, this American pope, understand the gravity of the situation. My sources tell me he really does have a heart for Ukraine and for and particularly these children. And, Mary, unfortunately, I have to tell you, the problem's even worse than that 20,000 number. That's the official number that the government of Ukraine is going by. But just this week, the head of Yale Labs, which has a project to track these abducted children, they came out and they updated their numbers. And unfortunately, they now believe that the Russians have abducted and taken more than 35,000 children from the occupied areas of Ukraine back to Russia for reeducation. And annihilation, really, of their cultural legacy, of their language, of their religious heritage, of anything that could be viewed Ukrainian. So it really is a cultural and religious cleansing that the Russians have begun as a process to really destroy the lives of these 35,000 children. |
| Mary/Ashley | What's being done about this? I mean, you know, I feel like people aren't hearing about this. And, you know, is there any other sort of international action? And I know you're your boots on the ground. What are you what are you doing to raise awareness about this? |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, this really has been, sadly, one of the untold stories of this war. You know, the headlines are always, you know, how many missiles and how many drones are being launched and and negotiation is which have been pretty fruitless with the Russians so far. But this has been an untold story, which we've been trying to work with others in particular the organization Save Ukraine to draw attention. And they've been able to rescue many children. That's the good news. But when the size of the problem is 35,000, they're just beginning that process and and they've rescued hundreds. When I was in Kiev in December of 2024, I had the chance to lead a group of Americans and public policy leaders to one of these rescue centers in the suburbs of Kiev. We had a chance to go meet with some of the children that had been rescued in very clandestine missions behind lines, much like you would imagine, the American Underground Railroad. And I had a chance to meet some of these children that had been returned and there was there was a process that was beginning to try to figure out, okay, how do we put them in family situations in this case where loved ones had been lost or killed or were still maybe trapped behind lines? But there was one case that I really wanted to share with you, and it's heartbreaking. But there's also some hope. And we met a 16 year old girl that had been unfortunately violated and raped by Russian soldiers. And she had been rescued and she was now pregnant as a result of one of these rapes. And and she told us that she was going to choose life. And no matter what the sins were that were involved in that situation, she was going forward and having this child and she wanted that child to be the future of Ukraine. And it's those kinds of stories which really bring the humanness. And I think it's why this pope and in his meetings with President Zelensky, highlighted this issue because he understands the deep evil that is at work with what the Russians are doing here. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, Gary, help us understand how these children are being taken in the first place. Are they storming orphanages and schools and just rounding children up and taking them, or is this being done family by family? How are the Russians taking these children out of Ukraine. |
| Gary Marx | So that this point the Russians have conquered in about 19% of Ukraine, they've not taken any of the 23 capitals of their their states, so to speak, but they have taken 19% of the country. So there are a lot of Ukrainian families trapped behind lines. So, yeah, this is a process of, you know, first that was cleaning out the orphanages and then it's going to schools. And imagine being one of those parents where your child is sent to a school and then at the end of the day, you're expecting to have your child come home. And guess what? You've been told by the Russian authorities, the the cultural commissars, that they have been now sent back to Russia to a camp let's call a summer camp. And there's all these these expressions which are double speak for what's really happening. And they're they're told they can never speak Ukrainian again. They're they're told that they're now a Russian citizen. They're taught the Russian national anthem. There are videos that we have that have come out of of Russia from these camps. And then, of course, the children that have been rescued, they've been able to provide firsthand accounts of what's what's happened to them. So it really is is heartbreaking. But we know the size and scope of this problem. We need to raise awareness and this has to be part of any peace negotiations going forward. The good news is our State Department, even in their negotiations, going back as far as Istanbul a number of months ago, they have said that any cease fire, we must have an accounting and begin the process of return for what then, what was known as this group of 20,000 children. So I give kudos to Secretary of State Rubio and his team that they they are aware of this problem and speaking up for it on behalf of the American people. |
| Mary/Ashley | We saw in this recent catastrophe in Texas the challenges of trying to identify and reunite children with their families. I mean, people are posting pictures on social media with name, age, identifying factors, phone numbers, and even then it's still proved very challenging. Logistically, how are you how how are you identifying these children and then how are you, you know, reuniting them with loved ones in a completely chaotic war zone? |
| Gary Marx | Right. It's a great question, Ashleigh. It is incredibly difficult. You have to have a professional forensic investigators that are involved. There is this Yale Lab Center that has been funded with money over the past number of years, and they are now in the process of looking for new funding. They're looking for $5 million to continue that project. Unfortunately, that money was lost in some of the changes with USAID, but that's going to be vital that that project is able to continue. And then, of course, they work with Ukrainian agencies like Save Ukraine on the ground and building international logs and registries of children and working together. And this is not something that's going to be simply unspoiled in a few years. It may take much longer and, you know, some of your listeners and viewers might remember the movie Empire of the Sun, where a young Christian Bale played a British child that ended up in a Japanese camp separated from his family. And it was a very moving where you saw at the end huge international centers of missing children that weren't connected with anyone of their families. So this is something the world has gone through before. It's been decades since we've had to do this. But, you know, it's going to involve once we can hopefully get to a cease fire, the International Red Cross, other international organizations. And, of course, I think the Catholic Church and under this pope, they could play a very positive role. But it is difficult because the Russians have been persecuting the church in the occupied territories as much as they persecuted evangelicals. Any faith that are not Russian Orthodox they have persecuted. So this this is not something where, you know, we just have to be honest, the Russians are particularly friendly with with with the past pope or we can expect with this current pope. But I think he can play a very valuable role. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, Gary, tell us a little bit about the makeup of Ukraine in terms of religious denominations and because sometimes, you know, there's Orthodox and then there's Eastern right Catholics. Talk to us about primarily what the population is made up of and what the Russians are trying to do to target specific populations of religious people. |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, I'm no expert in this area, but a thumbnail sketch is 60 to 65% of the country, as I understand it, maybe two thirds even are orthodox in their background. And they've been very carefully trying to extricate the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church and make sure that they are Ukrainian Orthodox Church listening to Ukraine and not having Russian agents who would often work under the secret services, the FSB in Russia. So that's been a difficult part of this story. So 65%, they're about 22% is Catholic. There's their strong then minority faiths, about a million evangelicals in a country that's about 40 million people. All these are rough numbers. But that gives you a flavor for for the country. And I should mention, when I was at their National Prayer breakfast last August of last June, I had a chance to meet two Catholic priests that had been just returned from Russia. They were taken in the occupied territories and they were taken by Russian authorities and tortured for being agents of Ukraine and working with the Ukrainian secret services. And they were extremely emaciated and recovering from from torture. And I and I share that to make sure that your listeners can understand there is an element to this that the Russians view this as a holy war. And the Russian Orthodox patriarch, Caryl, grew up in an in Russian government with Vladimir Putin, and he literally will use holy water to bless the missiles, bless the tanks. All the soldiers are given promises that no matter what crimes they may commit as Russian soldiers, this Patriarch Kirill will give them penance and they will be ushered into heaven directly. If all of this sounds a little familiar, it's because it sounds a little bit like we've dealt with with jihad as practiced in Islam. The same elements are at work. This is almost like an Orthodox jihad, and from a Russian Orthodox perspective, they desperately want to take back Kiev that is like that Jerusalem. The religious heritage runs through. Keith, not Moscow. Moscow was found well after Kiev was. So there is a deep religious element to all of this, which is, you know, leads to anti Catholic bigotry and persecution and really anti any faith but the Russian Orthodox faith. |
| Mary/Ashley | I didn't know any of that. I also embarrassed to say I didn't know quite how bad religious freedom violations are in Russia proper. And you've you've very recently worked on the religious freedom aspect of all of this. And so tell us a little bit about you know, I think when we think of religious freedom violations, we're thinking of Saudi Arabia or Nigeria, but we're not thinking of Russia, maybe because we're associating that with so many other egregious human rights violations. But tell us about the lack of religious liberty in Russia. |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, I've met with so many pastors and priests now who have stories from the occupied territories and anywhere that the Russians go in again, the Concord, 19% of the country, any faith that is not going to be loyal to them, is persecuted and systematically destroyed in in the fighting. They are very openly attacking and blowing up churches. More than 600 churches have been damaged and destroyed. This is something where the Ukrainian forces work to protect cultural and religious sites, even in their incursions when they went into Kursk last year. They work in a way that tries to honor faith and protect it, whereas there is none of that given by the Russian troops and soldiers. Again, this is part of a religious and cultural cleansing. So when there are churches that our are operating in the occupied territories, you know, very prominently most of the evangelical churches have been turned into Russian community centers and cultural education centers. So the cross has taken down, the flag is put up, and that becomes a headquarters for the community and for Russian events and independence events and those kinds of things. So this is standard practice. We know of 40 pastors and priests who have been persecuted and killed in torture and captivity by the Russians that that has been documented. So when there are churches that are allowed, to me, it's under close scrutiny. I talked to one pastor who said we are allowed to meet. Every sermon I give has to be turned into the minder and advance. You know, any of our sermons are recorded on video for review at a moment's notice. The FSB or the local officials can burst in from the back of the room and shut down the service. If anything is is said that is contrary to the state's wishes and beliefs. So the way religious freedom is practiced, I would not call that really free. |
| Mary/Ashley | You know, a lot of this is reminiscent of what the Russians did in Poland after the Second World War ended and that period of communism by trying to eliminate the Catholic Church and Polish culture. But you saw many, you know, incredible figures rise up during that time, including Saint John Paul, the second and blessed years. Papa, you should go. Are there are there people that the Ukrainians are looking to who would be similar in that regard? How are the Ukrainians fighting back to preserve their culture and their faith? |
| Gary Marx | Yeah, behind the lines. I, I know that there are those stories that are happening happening. But when we hear those stories, the names are often changed. So we may not know until, you know, peace comes and that they can be rescued. What the scope and breadth of those stories are. But I can tell you that that reality, Mary, that you brought up is is very important. As you may know, you can't fly to to Kiev. I'll be going there early next month and that'll be my fourth trip. And when you go to Ukraine, you have to fly to Warsaw or Krakow or or Moldova, and then you take the train in. And I've been really blessed by the time I've spent particularly in Krakow, and learning firsthand those stories of of of resistance. And that has inspired me to think, okay, this is worth fighting and standing with the Ukrainian people, because just like what the Poles went through under communism, there's nothing new under the sun. This is exactly the same type of things. And indeed, when I've met with some of these priests and pastors from Ukraine, they tell me this is nothing new for them. This is what their grandfathers went through under the Lenin, this and the Bolsheviks, and then this is what their fathers went through under the communists. And this is simply now what their generation is going through with this latest Russian aggression and the full scale invasion since three and a half years ago. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, Kerry, we are so grateful to you for the work that you're doing, this extraordinary mission. Talk about a holy, holy mission. Where can our listeners find out more about your podcast, the work that you're doing? What can we. |
| Gary Marx | Find to please check out Peace and Power Ukraine podcast on Spotify and Apple. It's part of the federal News Wire network and this is something we put out one episode a week short stories, no more than 30 minutes. But we want to bring in the best public policy leaders and people that are on the ground to bring more light than heat. And I feel like that's what we had the opportunity to do today. We just want to tell these stories and in particular, we want to put a spotlight on the religious freedom aspect. The 35,000 children, according to Yale Labs, which have been abducted. Now, we want to point out heroes like the Save Ukraine Project, led by Mykola Kuleba and their important work in rescuing these children. And those stories are just so vital. So please check out all the work there. And I just appreciate both of you, Ashley and Mary, for putting a spotlight on this. More needs to be said, and I'd love to report back after this next trip to Kiev. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, we'll pray for your safety and we'd love to have you back on to to update us about this critical mission. So thank you so much, Gary, for your time and God bless you. |
| Gary Marx | Yep. Very good. Thank you. |
| Betsy | Welcome to Conversations with Consequences. I'm your host is Betsy Fentress. And I'm joined by Monsignor Roger Landry, RTA chaplain and director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the United States. Thanks for coming to join us, Monsignor Landry. |
| Msgr Landry | Always great to be with you, Betsy. |
| Betsy | We've got a great saint and a great feast to talk about today, an anniversary. Tell us all about Mother Cabrini. |
| Msgr Landry | So when you look at who the U.S. Saints and blessed are, almost every single one has a huge connection to the missions and mother Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini his hundred and 75th birthday was on July 15th earlier this week. And so it's a tremendous opportunity for all of us in the United States to ponder not just her life, but our own. Considering each of us is born with a purpose, she fulfilled hers, and now it's time for Betsy Fentress and Roger Landry to fill ours. |
| Betsy | So there are three shrines. There's one in Golden, Colorado, there's one in Chicago, there's one in New York, which is close to you. How how are they different and what celebrations have been going on in New York where you are located for Mother Cabrini is 175th birthday. |
| Msgr Landry | So all three are special. They all have a little bit of a different emphasis in Chicago, which is where the National Shrine to Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini is. That's where she died. That's where her community of Sisters still President Golden, Colorado, she had visited there and they built an incredible shrine with a huge statue on the top of a mountain. Golden, Colorado, curiously, is the sister city of my hometown, Lowell, Massachusetts. Really? I got a wedding a few years ago back in Golden, and I saw the statue, wondered what it was, visited. It saw that it was Mother Cabrini and then was checking out a little bit online about the history of the shrine. And that's when I discovered its connection to the best place to be born besides Nazareth in the world. Long last. But New York is where her relics are, right underneath the altar in Washington Heights. That's where she worked a lot with her sisters here in the city. They, you know, she she was basically based in lower Manhattan when she was living here. But they had a big school up there in Washington Heights, right up by the cloister, which is part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And it's a beautiful place to make a pilgrimage. Last year, we were able to take the National Youth take pilgrimage there. Earlier this year in the Jubilee of Hope, I had a privilege to be able to preach about Mother Cabrini and Hope. And that's where Pilgrims of Mother Cabrini go in big numbers regularly in order to be able to have masses around, you know, around her mortal remains and days of recollection. I used to take the Columbia students up there in order to get to know Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini. You know, she had this extraordinary courage and zeal, even though she was afraid of water, because she almost drowned when she was a seven year old girl growing up in Lodi, Italy. She traversed the Atlantic dozens of times in order to spread the faith. She had always wanted to be a missionary in China. But Pope Leo, the 13th, who's now big back in in the news because of Pope Leo, the 14th selection of his name, he said no, not to the east, but to the west. And so she came here to the west. And when she got to New York City, Archbishop Corrigan basically booted her, said that he had asked her for A to take over an orphanage, but the benefactors had more or less reneged. And so it's time to go home. And with great courage, she just said no Pope Leo the 13th sent me here, and it's here that I'm going to stay. And she built what people since have called an empire of hope for orphans, for students, for the sick. She founded the first real hospital here for those who are poor and sick. And that just started an extraordinary avalanche of charity, not merely across the United States, but across the whole Western Hemisphere and South America as well. And so her 175th birthday is a time for all of us Catholics in the United States to celebrate the shrine of Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini, where a relics are under the altar in Washington Heights, New York, a part of Upper Manhattan is has launched a Jubilee of Hope speaker series. And they asked me to kick the whole thing off. And I spoke about how Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini by being a saint, the church has pronounced her to be heroically virtuous in seven virtues, one of which is hope that she was a real hero of hope, and that each of us in this Jubilee of Hope is called not just to be a little bit more hopeful, but to become truly heroic, valiant in hope. Saint John Paul, the second, called her a messenger of hope for the world. Pope Francis called her a missionary of hope for the world, and she brought that hope to 67 different institutions all over the world because as Pope Benedict said when he was in the United States in 2008, our hope is not just an interior attitude where we look on the bright side of things. Our hope is a person Christ Jesus is our hope. As Saint Paul wrote in his first letter to Saint Timothy. And so Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini brought that hope, Jesus Christ, to so many across the world. That's what missionaries do every day. That's what we're trying to do with conversations with consequences. And that's what every Catholic son or daughter is called to be. To the extent that by our baptism we're called to be a saint, it means we're called to be heroic in faith, hope, love, prudence, courage, moderate injustice. And so Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini is a real signpost for us in this year of how to grow to hopeful heroism. |
| Betsy | In this Jubilee year. If we can't get to Rome, can you give us some ideas of how we might partake as pilgrims here? |
| Msgr Landry | So in every diocese, the bishop has named at least a few churches, this cathedral and some others where you can get all the indulgence of the jubilee just by going there. You can't nominate a door in those churches as a holy door like in Rome. But the indulgences that would come through passing through a holy bore are able to be received. And every diocesan cathedral in the country and in some of the other churches, especially in the bigger dioceses, too. So Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini Shrine here in New York is one of those places. So we were able to get up to two plenary indulgences on a given day. And so I just encourage people, if they don't know already, where to go in their diocese, to call their diocesan headquarter and ask and then go and take their family and take some friends so that we might be able to be filled with heroic hope close to home. |
| Betsy | And we've been talking with Monsignor Roger Landry, all about Mother Cabrini. And we'll just take a short break and be right back with more here on EWTN Radio. Welcome back to Conversations with Consequences here on EWTN Radio. I'm your host is Betsy Fentress, and we're talking with our resident chaplain, all about Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini and monsignor. She became a naturalized citizen. So she's the first American saint, isn't that correct? |
| Msgr Landry | Yeah, she's the first one who was ever canonized who had U.S. citizenship. Okay. We're now early. Are Americans like likewise, the day before, 175th birthday was the feast of Saint Kateri Tekakwitha. Right. Born 200 years prior, the North American martyrs likewise died here. They were not American citizens, but we would claim them as American saints. Similarly, we're about to have the beatific vision of the martyrs of Georgia who would have given their life these Franciscan missionaries for our faith in 1597. But she was the first race to the altars. And for those who have been to Rome, something quite curious is that she is the only American in Saint Peter's Basilica. So you've got the niches of the founders. And the founders had various religious orders that continue to build the church up in every generation and facing basically the Baltic, you know, the canopy of Saint Peter's is the statue of Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini. And she has in an open book teaching some young students what her motto was, which is particularly helpful in this jubilee of Hope. Her motto was, I can do all things in him strengthens me. Philippians 413. And it meant that no matter what challenges she was facing and she faced some really big one, she was able to move forward confidently because she knew she wasn't facing those challenges alone. But the Lord Jesus who loved her, who called her, who was her bridegroom, and the mystical spawn salary of women's religious life was with her, always assisting her. And that was the great secret to her extraordinary fruitfulness. |
| Betsy | I read about her when she came to New York. Just you said the archbishop booted her or wanted to order that there was a lot of anti Italian sentiment at the time and the Irish were sort of running the Catholic show. Is that is that accurate? |
| Msgr Landry | Well, it's a sad reality that for a lot of Catholics, ethnicity has proven more important than Catholicity that what distinguishes them because of ethnic origins was sometimes prioritized over the fact that we've got the same blood of Christ flowing through us and we're more related to each other by baptism than I am to my identical twin by genes. But yeah, no, they were they were maltreated not just by the Irish, but also by the WASPs who were here, you know, the Italians who first came over. You know, sometimes they were a ship shipping over criminals. Right. And the priests who were serving often had been booted from Sicily or Italy. So they weren't necessarily getting the people who were valedictorians of their seminary class and who you know, whose cause for canonization have since been introduced. Right. So she encountered a circumstance here in which the Italians were being spiritually neglected at the same time that they were being socially discriminated against. But boy, did she do a huge work, not just in passing on the treasure of our faith to them, but she also helped integrate them into larger society, use their gifts so that people were able to learn what we now know that Italian Catholic piety, hard work, artistry, cooking, gelato, making you name it, I can go on and on is a real gift to every culture that the Italians enter. |
| Betsy | So is she still well known and beloved in New York City? Is she sort of the premier saint there for Americans? |
| Msgr Landry | Saint Patrick, I think because of the Irish inheritance in New York, would probably still be a bigger saint. Of course, we've got Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, who is a native of Manhattan, very soon associated with her Saint Trees of Calcutta, used to come here quite a bit. We've got Saint Blessed Solanus Casey, whose feast is going to be in a couple of weeks, was in three different locations. There's devotion to a lot of saints here, but especially among the it'll Giants. She is clearly still numero uno here. And among the average Catholic who grows up here, she is still very popular there. But what we're likewise seeing, though, around the 175th birthday and a little bit beyond, is that pilgrimage groups are coming from all over the East Coast in order to be able to pray at her tomb. And their love for her is helping spark the love of those who are here in New York who can take for granted sometimes that just up the one subway, we've got one of the greatest human beings of all time. |
| Betsy | You know, you talking about that? She's a strong woman. And I thought of Saint Catherine of Siena, too. But there's a story that she met Catherine Drexel and she was having some trouble. And Catherine, I think Catherine Drexel said go to Rome and don't leave until you get what you want from the pope. |
| Msgr Landry | I don't know if that's apocryphal or historical that I'm learning something from you here, Betsy, if that took place. But I don't think Mother Cabrini needed anyone to encourage her to be bold in those circumstances, because that was part of her fiber from the very beginning. She overcame so many obstacles with regard to her own health, and it's one of the great scandals of all time that so many people with religious vocations have not been able to follow them where they first knocked on the door because people put the human consideration of their health above the question of whether God has actually given them a vocation to serve in this particular community in this particular way. But she triumphed over that. She triumphed over the death of her parents when she was young. She triumph over Pope Leo the 13th, who initially wasn't just going to be receiving any old young woman from Lodi coming on in, but she persevered. And that perseverance is one of the virtues that every Catholic ought to emulate. And so on. The week of her 175th birthday. This is something that we can be praying for that will persevere in living and sharing our faith. Like Francesca Xaviera Cabrini did, coming from Lodi to New York and from New York to the world. |
| Betsy | Thank you, Monsignor, for that little crash course in Mother Cabrini. And tell us where we can go to for all of your work at the Pontifical Mission Society. |
| Msgr Landry | So we're trying to continue the zeal of Saint Francis Xavier Cabrini and bringing the gift of Jesus to everyone who doesn't yet know him. Well. You come to pontifical missions dot org and you'll be able to find out more about how to continue the great work of Saint Francis Xavier. |
| Betsy | Thank you for coming on the show. |
| Msgr Landry | God bless you. |
| Mary/Ashley | Welcome back to Conversations with Consequences now on EWTN radio. I'm your host is Ashley McGuire. And we are in the thick of summer with the 4th of July in the rearview mirror. And something very exciting is taking place on Island, New York. Just last Sunday, over 1300 showed up for mass on the beach. So we invited Father Bryan Barr and Jordan Bernardi on to discuss this movement. Welcome to the show, Father and Jordan. |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Thanks, Ashley. Thanks for having us. |
| Mary/Ashley | So I grew up Protestant and it's funny because my family had something that they called Beach Church where we would go to church on the beach. And I have to say, this piqued my interest because I didn't, if you'll excuse my mixed metaphors, think of it as something that's kosher. But tell us how beach mass came about and really where the concept came from. |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Well, see, I've been I've been pastor down here, so we live on a a barrier island, kind of off of Long Island to a part a part of the island, but a little a little bit removed. And it's three parishes on the barrier island. So I'm pastor of all three and I guess ten, 11, 11, 11 and a half years ago, the whole question of I, I had been here about, I guess maybe a year or so, and I had just inquired about whether we ever had mass on the beach because we're only, you know, the parish I live in right now, like 100 yards from the ocean may be maybe a little bit more. And the other parish is maybe three blocks. So it's we're close. So a very, very, very close, very much a part of life down here. There's a giant is a two mile long boardwalk that's kind of it's kind of like Broadway in a sense. Everybody so much happens down there and in the summer months, concerts and volleyball and, you know, just people out and about. So I yeah, I had asked there was a group, a group of people from St Mary's, which was the first of the three parishes where I became pastor and kind of said, Hey, do you guys ever do you ever have mass on the beach? And they said, No, they really they never they never really did. They liked the idea. So we started talking about it and it was a a group that we kind of met socially was really just for me to kind of pick the brains of active members of the parish and what they would what they thought we needed, what needed to start, what needed to maybe stop. So from from that question and then these meetings this little really more like a wine and cheese parties, the whole the possibility of it kind of took took took off and got a committee going. You know, a lot of places will do. Sure. Parishes will do. They'll do like a sunrise, Easter morning mass on the beach. A couple of priest friends of mine, they'll they'll do a like a met once a summer if they're if they're near near the beach or a park or something, they'll have an outdoor mass. But I think what made this unique was the fact that it was every Sunday, like it wasn't just a one shot deal. So pretty much July and August, every Sunday night, July and August were down and the weather permitting were down on the beach. And, you know, it just grew, you know, probably probably started a couple of hundred people, maybe maybe 300 people. And within within that first summer, it numbers, numbers grew and kind of steadily ever since. |
| Mary/Ashley | And Jordan, what's your role and and tell us about Beach Catholic. |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Yeah sure so I'm the director of operations of the beach Catholic parishes down here. So basically Beach Catholic is the tri parish community of Saint Ignatius martyr St Mary's, the Isle and Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal. Excuse me, Father. Brian's the pastor of all three. Father Stephen McLernon is the associate pastor. And then I work very closely with the two of them to coordinate operations of the three parishes, day to day stuff, but also some of the some of the big events that we do throughout the year and of course, the beach mass in the summers. |
| Mary/Ashley | And so are the that are going to the beach mass. Are they primarily vacationers or are they locals or is it a mix? Do you attract people who just want to come see more than 1000 people on the beach saying mass? Who are the Jews in the crowd? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Probably a little bit of everybody, believe it or not, not not too many vacationers. This is a largely all year round community like on Long Island, where we're we're close to New York City. Actually, we're probably 35 minutes from Manhattan. If you go way out east on the out to the Hamptons, the north and the south fork there, you'll get, you know, the parish life out there slows down big time in the winter. It's really largely summer summer community here. It's not the case here. It's people really all year round. So in terms of the mass, you know, there's a big percentage that are just people from down here. Absolutely. I think we're seeing this more and more people who are don't live down here, but they're, you know, 20 minutes to a half hour or an hour away and they they just make the trip in some cases even further. Some people are two weeks ago, somebody from Staten Island was here. And we've all we've always had people from Brooklyn and Queens who just make the trip in. And so people will come for the day, you know, they'll they'll hang at the beach and then with the intention of then kind of transitioning over to the wherever, we'll have a mass and so, yeah, I'd say it's not so much vacationers or tourists, it's more more locals or people who don't live here, but they're not too far away. |
| Mary/Ashley | And what about the logistics? Like, you know, do you have chairs? Is there a set up? Do you have an altar, as you know? How do you how do you manage the logistics of a crowd of that size, you know, without a traditional church setting? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Yeah. So so there's definitely a setup. We've got a really, really great team of people who who come every every Sunday throughout the summer to help us. And it's a bunch of parishioners, a lot of them who just volunteer their time, who just been so great to work with over the years. But so much of it is kind of community driven as far as the setup, the breakdown, I mean, even even the altar that's used was handmade by a carpenter in the parish who put it together a number of years ago. Same thing with the ambo and the and the processional cross. You know, it was kind of excuse me, cool about that was the guy who who built the altar and the other pieces. It was, you know, in October, it'll be 13 years that we had Hurricane Sandy, which really, really impacted Long Island. But very specifically, this area, people's homes were tons of damage. Our church, St Mary's, was closed till the following August. Renovations and so on. So what this guy did was to the boardwalk. The boardwalk I mentioned was completely devastated, had to be whatever was left standing. They tore down. They completely built a new boardwalk. So he took the wood from the boardwalk and made the altar the the ambo, the processional cross. That's just got a cool kind of cool symbolism that it's kind of got repurposed. I'm sorry I interrupt you there, but no it's very cool. You know, people come with their beach chairs that plant them in the sand. So, yeah, it's just a very cool and kind of unique setting. And again, like thanks to so many great people, were able to bring it all together and do something really cool. You know, when we were when we were kind of getting this off the idea off the ground and when it started to move toward, you know, a reality. One of the questions concerns we had was reference, you know, the beach is casual. Beach towns are kind of more casual than the average place, I think, which is great. I love it. We all love it. But, you know, it's still the mass. You know, it's the Eucharist is a sacrament. So like being in this non church setting, the concern was, I just think this thing can't turn into like a, like a picnic where you can lose sight of what it is we're doing. So we've always just been really, you know, pretty vigilant about that. And I mean, it it really hasn't been a problem. Maybe every once in a while you'll have somebody who I remember once there was a guy, he was on line for communion and he wasn't wearing a shirt, you know, And we were like, hey, you know, you want to throw a t shirt on, will come up to receive communion. But but when you think in 900 1112 hundred people, if you have one one person once in a while who's could stand to be a little more buttoned up or reverent, as I said, that's not that bad, you know? |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, it's probably par for the course for most other churches, too, and the appropriateness of attire. So that was actually going to be my next question. But that's that's interesting. So what about, you know, let's say somebody maybe a priest saw the success of what you're doing and was like, hey, I want to replicate this in Malibu. What are the rules? Do they have to and I'm genuinely curious, what are the rules about celebrating mass outside of a church? Because as I was thinking about this and thinking of my family's, quote unquote, beach church back in the day, I was thinking, you know, my daughter just did this wilderness camp in the Rockies. They did mass, you know, outside in the mountains. So what do priests have to do or parishes to be able to do something like this? Does it require the bishop? You know what? What's the protocol? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Well, I think it would depend, I guess, probably on the mass or whatever the occasion is. You know, we do have, you know, whenever whenever the pope comes for a visit, it's an outdoor mass. You know, when crowds are so big that you couldn't possibly be inside, then you're outside. So in some cases, it's a it's sort of an ongoing experience. Permission would be required if it's a one shot deal. I don't I don't even know. I don't even to be honest, I'm not sure if it even is required. Try to remember it's been so long now since we got started. I mean, certainly the diocese is aware of it. You know, I've I've talked to the bishop about it over the years. And, you know, it's always it always becomes almost like each each summer it becomes a little bit more the talk, just that it's kind of kind of an event. And yeah, so seems to fly. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, we're in this period of Eucharistic revival and we've just had this, you know, nationwide very public procession of the Eucharist. What are your thoughts about just sort of the public perception of the faith and the mass? You know, as somebody who's been doing it for so many years? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Yeah. I mean, from my end excuse me, as a as a layperson, I would say the just the kind of the sight of the Eucharist in public and and people flocking to that, people flocking to him, I think there's something really powerful about that. And I think I think in turn, like people are drawn to public witness of faith. I think it's something that we're naturally kind of a little uncomfortable with. But but hey, when there's a thousand people around you, it makes that so much easier, right? So I think there's something very powerful that that has happened throughout the country kind of with these with these national Eucharistic revival events, but also right here on Long Island and and in Long Beach, something is definitely happening where where people are are connecting more deeper, more closely with the Eucharist. And I think the public nature of that is really exciting. It's really exciting for for those of us in the church, but also for for people who may not be Catholic or may have fallen away. I think the power of numbers says a lot. You know, I was at last, literally last night I had dinner with a couple who a guy I know they get married next couple of months and I didn't even know this, but he told me the beach fast. So his mother died. Maybe this is eight years ago. And he said he was just hadn't been going to church prior for a while. And I guess his mother's death really, really hit him hard and he was having a tough time and somebody said, I guess somebody said, hey, you know, brought up the whole question of faith. And, you know, and he was a little bit like, you know, whatever it was, it really kind of biting at that. And I guess this friend said, hey, there's this mass on the beach every Sunday night. And he decided to go down and he told me this last night, I loved it. He just said, I went to the first mass. And I said and he said, I've never I've never looked back. He's so funny. Like, I only remember him now as a church guy. Like he's he's he's frequently at daily Mass and he says, hey, if if it at least from his perspective, it wasn't for that experience of the invitation. And then, you know, there's something about, you know, when you know people who are going to church, which we all do. And I you know, you're trying to encourage courage that they get themselves to back into practices. It's awkward or frequently awkward. I think we're always afraid that we're going to look a little preachy or a little like we're judging people. And I think the person who's being who isn't practicing, a lot of times they get a little defensive or they might be a little insulted. And so because of all of that, we kind of we hesitate to bring it up. And I think this mass is kind of a it's like a softer cell, Like you can you can say, hey, come, come, come down to this mass. It's, you know, this just you can't believe how many people there and you can't believe how many people you going to see. And the music is amazing and the setting is great. And I think they hear that invite more comfortably. Kind of. It's just it's easy. Is it? The people don't usually talk church a whole lot, especially to somebody who's not really going you know down here it almost becomes like on Sundays in July and August. It's like, you know, you go to mass tonight, like it's sort of like this this thing now. Hey, the one of the questions people ask sometimes is, yeah, but do they go do they continue to go to mass, you know, after Labor Day, like, well, some well, first of all, there's a huge percentage that they never stopped. They just they continue they go back indoors. There are others who we don't see anymore because they're now back at their home parishes. And I'm sure, there are some that maybe don't don't really continue. I know there are people that this guy would be an example who started with Beach Mass. And now he's he can't get them out of the church. So it's a. |
| Mary/Ashley | It's a gateway drug. |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | That's a great way of putting it. It's a great way of putting it in. And if yeah, and if some people, you know, come and don't come back and they just they do this because like, okay, you know, that's, that's not a reason not to do it, it's like, that's like saying hey there's lots of people who come to mass on Christmas Eve and, and Easter Sunday and that's all they do it. Like you wouldn't say those people don't bother coming and we wouldn't say, okay, we're not going to have Christmas Eve mass because most people are we're not going to see the next week like you. You continue to offer it, You continue, you invite challenge. And so it's worked. It's definitely worked. |
| Mary/Ashley | Okay. Do you do anything like Adoration on the beach or other other beach related church programing or any of that slated for the future? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Yes. So we've actually got a holy hour scheduled on the beach actually in the coming days. So that's exciting. A couple of years ago, on the 75th anniversary of D-Day, we did a holy hour on the beach. That was very cool. Again, just very powerful public witness of faith during COVID. During COVID, we did we did masses and holy hours outside and kind of on the church property. So, yeah, I think, you know, the there's so much thanks to our environment down here in Long Beach, like there's so much that we can do. And so we really just try to take advantage of that and use that in the in the best ways we can to to evangelize. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well, I know that when I was reading about what you're doing, I was easily able to pull up a YouTube video of of a homily on the beach. But where could our listeners who are interested in what you're doing and maybe want to just join remotely, where can they find out more about both Beach Catholic and Beach, Mass and what you've got going on? |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Yeah, sure. So you can find us online at each Catholic dot com also on Facebook and Instagram at beach Catholic and yeah we regularly post the Sunday homilies we've a livestream to to the Sunday and weekday masses on our websites and just kind of all the events we do the year beach mass is huge and it's great and it gets a lot of people, but there's also so many events we do throughout the year. Monthly, holy hours, family kind of fests and social events, things like that. We kind of refer to ourselves sometimes as the parish that sleeps because there's constantly stuff going on. So yeah, beach Catholic dot com would be would be the place to go. |
| Mary/Ashley | Well we thank you both, Father and Jordan for your very public witness to the faith. And thank you for joining us today on conversations of consequences. |
| Fr. Brian Barr/Jordan Bernhardi | Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks for having us. |