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Episode Description
With a new movie coming to theaters depicting the harrowing, but true, life account of St. Maximilian Kolbe, filmmaker Anthony D’Ambrosio joins to share what compelled him to make this film. The film, Triumph of the Heart, heralds the heroism of Kolbe who offered his life in Auschwitz so another prisoner could live – a story which gave the filmmaker hope and inspiration to face struggles in his own life.
We also talk with Billboard chart-topping singer/songwriter Marie Miller about why she is inspired by our two new saints, Carlo Acutis and Pier Giorgio Frassati. Miller shares how the witness of these two young men personally changed her life and inspired her newest song to be released on the feast of the Queenship of Mary.
Msgr. Roger Landry also shares his insights into the life of blessed Carlo Acutis, and why he is known as the “saint in sneakers.”
Bios
Anthony D’Ambrosio is a film producer, writer, director, and founder of Sherwood Fellows – a marketing agency helping organizations communicate the gospel to a greater audience. He co-founded Catholic Creatives, a group of men and women committed to the mission of building events and digital spaces for Catholic entrepreneurs and artists to reshape how the gospel is presented to this generation. In 2023 he began writing, producing, and directing his latest film, Triumph of the Heart, based on the compelling account of St. Maximilian Kolbe, whose story inspired D’Ambrosio’s own personal life. He earned his Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy and Catholic Studies in Literature from the University of St. Thomas in Houston, Texas. He enjoys cooking, raising plants, and writing poetry.
Marie Miller is a Christian folk/pop singer, songwriter, and recording artist in Nashville who made her debut signing with Curb Records at age 17, with the release of her number one Christian hit, You’re Not Alone. She later released the independent albums Little Dreams and The Way of Love – which was inspired by St. Thérèse of Lisieux. Her latest song, Highest Home, was inspired by the lives of soon-to-be-saints Carlo Acutis and Pier Giorgio Frassati, to be released on the Queenship of Mary Feast Day prior to their canonizations. She has shared the stage with prominent artists like the Backstreet Boys, The Wallflowers, and Andrea Bocelli, and her music has been featured in movies and on television shows.
Monsignor Roger Landry is a priest of the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts. He writes for numerous publications, speaks on radio and TV, and is the author of the book, Plan of Life: Habits to Help You Grow Closer to God. A graduate of Harvard and the Pontifical North American College in Rome, he served as Attaché to the Holy See’s Permanent Observer Mission to the United Nations in New York. Father Landry traversed the full 1500-mile Eucharist Pilgrimage in 2024 and joined the historic Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis, an event which coincided with his 25th year in the priesthood. In 2024, he was appointed the new National Director of the Pontifical Mission Societies in the USA by Pope Francis.
The following transcript is machine generated.
Episode 333 Transcript
| Betsy | Welcome back to conversations with consequences on EWTN radio. I'm your host us 30 Fentress. |
| Mary | And I'm Mary Fiorito. |
| Betsy | And we're here to talk about a new movie that's been getting a ton of publicity the last few weeks on the life of Saint Maximilian Kolbe, and we're very excited to welcome Anthony D'Ambrosio to the show. The director and producer of the film triumph of the heart. Coming to the theaters September 12th. Welcome to the show, Anthony. |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Thank you so much, Betsy. |
| Betsy | Well, our timing for the show, at least, is great because we've just celebrated the feast of Saint Maximilian Kolbe last month. His sacrifice and courage in Auschwitz has gripped the hearts of countless Catholics across the globe. But Anthony, you have are you very unique story in your own introduction to Kolbe that started when you were suffering from insomnia? Can you tell us about that? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I guess the story really starts. I was a, seminarian. I left seminary with this great passion for evangelization for the church. And I was madly in love, and was about to get married when I, contracted an illness that nobody really knew how to diagnose. It later turned out to be a chronic, like, fungal infection, basically like the fungal version of Lyme disease. But, it took ten years to diagnose that. And in the sort of meantime, my life basically just, like, absolutely imploded because, as anybody knows, who is who suffered from, like, sleep deprivation, you can only do that for, for so long before, basically, you lose the ability to fully function. And that was certainly my story. I was sleeping about like 20 minutes to 2 hours a night and waking up in the middle of the night, you know, with like, the most devastatingly terrifying, like panic attacks, for no, no apparent reason. And I think that, yeah, in the, in kind of the fallout of that, I lost the, the, the job and the career that I was seeking. The relationship with the woman that I was about to get married to, I knew that we couldn't, like, move forward into marriage and in sort of that state, and so my life was really like, muddied and, I was I was totally heartbroken and devastated and, I just couldn't see how a good God could allow that to happen. And of course, I'd heard all of the intellectual arguments for God's existence. I'd grown up steeped in the faith. But when I really encountered, suffering like this, that felt so sort of devastating and so meaningless, it it really brought me to question, question everything, ultimately. And, I left the church, I left my faith. And, was really kind of leaving God behind. And, it wasn't until I started to really, like, I was doing a writing job, and I found the story of Saint-Maximin and Colby simply because a client was asking me to do a little biography of him. And the, the research that I was doing really shocked me with some details about Colby's life that showed me, in some ways, that he was a kindred spirit, and that he had something to offer me that I, had passed over. And specifically, it was the detail that he not only survived for 14 days in that starvation bunker, but there were nine other men with him in that three of them survived all the way to the point of execution with him. The three men journeyed with him, sang songs with him, prayed with him, and sort of staged this rebellion of hope with him inside of that cell, singing songs so that the others outside of the cell who were walking by could, could remember their identities and remember that God loved them. And that that story, it made me simultaneously angry. And also, showed me that there was something there that I, I needed to learn, that I needed to kind of reflect on and I to for the next years began to just find myself meditating on this story, in the middle of the night when I was waking up, I found it to be incredibly comforting and, felt like in some ways, Colby was, like, descending into my cell to help to teach me how to carry my cross and how to suffer. Well. |
| Mary | I didn't realize that until you just said in Anthony that there were others that survived along with them. I my understanding was always that he was the last to die and, you know, accompanied the others to the end. But you know, thinking back on what Saint John Paul the second set of him was that, you know, he was a saint for our troubled age. And when you think about how assisted suicide or as it's now being called, medically assisted death is gaining traction. I mean, you look at Canada and now in the United States, what do you think Colby's message of suffering has to say to our society today? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Yeah. I mean, just to go into sort of the perspective that I had at the time, like I when when there's no meaning to life, there's no, there's there's no reason to suffer. Like if there is no God and there is no heaven, there is no meaning and suffering beyond, perhaps like there's, I think, some sort of pagan type like heroism that you could, like, look at there. But ultimately speaking, the only alternative is either to end the suffering by distraction and medication, or by ending the suffering by, by killing yourself. If those things don't work, and that that's really that the, the immediate like next step logically from a world that does not have God. And I think that this story is really interesting because in Auschwitz that was the initiation speech that was given to everybody that was brought in. You have 14 days to a month, depending on how much we hate you to live. All of that life is going to be suffering. You should kill yourself now. As soon as you can to get it over with. That was sort of the psychological game that demonically the Nazis were trying to play with these people. And so for Kolbe to step forward, to give his life, to save the life of another man and then to leave this sort of, you know, I guess, rebellion of hope, and prayer from inside of the starvation bunker. You see it in this, like, immediate contrast to the the demonic voice of the culture of death that was, you know, being given voice by the Nazis, but is still very prevalent in our world today. |
| Betsy | Attended Auschwitz. I've been to that cell. It's probably the most chilling day of my life. When did you go there for the first time. And tell us a little bit about recreating his life through film, and what kind of production team you had and how all that fell together? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Absolutely. Yeah. The first time that I was there, it was, 20, 22, I was still very ill. Frankly, this was, I felt like my body was really breaking down. I was kind of saying, like, bias to to to people and writing. I was actively writing those letters while I was, in Poland. But I had the fortune of staying with the, the friars in, Auschwitz. Which is the friary right outside of, outside of Auschwitz. And getting to really know, how the how they remember him like the the oral tradition of their order. And I think that when I went to Auschwitz for the first time, yes, it was, like, really crushing. But it was also on his feast day where, all of these poles kind of come together, precess in front of the, the cell and, and say, a mass. And they sing traditional Polish hymns that likely would have been the songs that they were singing in the cell. And it was one of the most profound experiences of God's light, kind of shining in, in testimony, of, of resurrection over the darkness that, that I've ever experienced. It was certainly like, the most unique mass. Like I will never, ever forget even to where I was standing. I was standing on the doorstep of one of these, of one of the bunkers, you know, one of the prison blocks. Because it was like standing room only. So I was like, just standing there, singing these Polish songs and and celebrating kind of the life of a man who had, who had suffered tremendously, but, who obviously had inspired an entire country to, to have faith and have hope. And I just was like this, this story is so beautiful. Like the the conquering of the light over darkness in the story of Colby is a testimony to the fact that God can conquer the darkness in any person's life, no matter what. And if he can do that there, he can do that in my life. And so, yeah, I think, I set out from that moment, with this sort of mandate, like people, people need to tell the story, and I shouldn't be the one to do it because I'm American, I'm not Polish, and I'm a first time director. But God often chooses the people who are kind of the least expected to to do the things that, that are sort of his biggest kind of plans. You know? And, I came back and immediately, was given a diagnosis by a pro-life, medical clinic in Denver, Colorado that was able to find the infection and give it gave me, they gave me a medication, to help. And my life sort of came back together. I could sleep, and I immediately started working on kind of returning that that gift by making the film. So we raised the money and went to Poland and, and, that's that. But I can tell more about the specific, like, experiences of working on it and the filmmaking process, but it really was like being on retreat with, Americans and Poles kind of collaborating to, to bring forward a story of one of the greatest heroes of the 20th century. |
| Mary | Well, Anthony, you were recently featured on EWTN pro-life weekly show, and you were quite eloquent, eloquent, rather, when you. |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Said, I take elegant, I'll say. |
| Mary | Yes, elegant and else listeners who can't see him, he's a very, very dapper young man here. So for everyone who's suffering, there's this privilege that they have because the veil between heaven and earth is so thin, they can either be looking at and face to face with hell, or they can be looking at and face to face with heaven. Ultimately, I would ask them to knock on their door and to seek a vision of heaven cheering them on in the midst of their suffering. That is just that's like incredibly profound. And, did you finally then feel like you've talked about the hellish sort of piece of what you were suffering? What what was it like the moment when you knocked on heaven's door instead? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | And in my research on Colby's story, one of the things that that came forward that was like an interesting detail that really captivated me was that when he was in Japan, he was also chronically ill. He had, chronic tuberculosis that that really debilitated him. And, of course, with somebody as much, with as much energy and enthusiasm and as big of dreams and mission as him. It was it was so difficult for him to be to be bedridden for months, trying to kind of deal with his illness. And so during one of those months, he was on death's door, sick in, in Poland, or sorry, in Japan. And he had a dream about heaven that seems to have really rocked him, really changed him after he kind of came back from that dream. He was very different in the way that he presented himself and spoke to the other people around him, even in his letters. When you read his letters to like his brothers and his family members, he begins to use sort of like pet names and and the more like he goes from this more formal tone to this very tender, very like personal tone. And you can see this shift in his personality kind of happening. And I'm him, but he never shared what was in the dream. He never shared the specific contents of the dream, just that it was about heaven. And so, I, I sort of, as an artist, began to, like, imagine what that might have been like. And, and my kind of answer to that is like, I think Christ gives us the best image of heaven in the banquet of, like the wedding banquet of the lamb. Like, that is what Scripture gives us is what heaven is going to be like. So I just imagined it to be a dream about a Polish wedding. And, I don't want to give any spoiler alerts, but we we filmed a Polish wedding in the movie, and, it's, it was one of the first things that we shot because we had to do everything in reverse, right? Where, we're going to shave all the guy's heads to the. We shoot them in Poland. But, in heaven, they should have their hair. So we're going to shoot that, you know, before we do the the shaving. And, yeah, we all get together. The first thing that we shoot is this heaven scene, and it was like, when we got in there, it felt like we we were touching same Maximilian Kolbe like, every time that we touched him. You know, we're all dancing, so, like, arm in arm, there's moments where we even, like, kind of got him up on our arms, sort of throwing him up and down, you know, it's just like this great celebration, but, every, every touch felt like we were we were face to face with the actual amount of Covid. It was it was an uncanny spiritual experience. And, when we finished, we went outside and those people who were, we had this big monitor, and you have, like, all of your set, all the different people who are like, working on it are like watching the monitor for anything that's out of place, anything that they need to notice or fix. And, we walk out and everybody is just, like, in tears, you know, like holding each other because it was like, and when you see it, like when you see it in the movie, it if you do not cry watching it, it's like you have a, a stony heart. You know, because it's, it's such a beautiful representation of like of God's victory and his love. And so when we all saw that, I think all of us just knew, like, heaven is with us is watching us as we as we make this film, as we tell the story, we're treading on sacred ground. And, there's like a power that that God is sort of like bottling up in every image that we're producing that that, yeah, that when we unleash and when you give it to people to watch, it's going to really like move hearts. So yeah. |
| Betsy | We're talking with filmmaker Antonio D'Ambrosio about his new movie on Saint Maximilian Kolbe, A triumph of the heart. And I'm telling you, if you watch the trailer and you can watch it at triumph of the heart.com, you are going to want to see this movie. It's harrowing and compelling, and I wanted to ask you a question, Anthony, about the family. Who's the the man who's Maximilian Kolbe took his place so that he could live because he broke down and, you know, screaming. And this is in the trailer. You know, I have I have a wife, I have children. What is the current day situation of that family or people in contact with them? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Yeah. So, Francisco, new check was the, is the man that that Colby saved. And I always hate it when people ask me this question because it's like one of the darker, like, things about this story, which is that, unbeknownst to him, his family had already been killed in World War Two, that he, in fact, no longer had a wife and children in that moment when he. |
| Betsy | Did not. |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Renew. And so when he went back and kind of discovered this, he dedicated his life to, to sharing about the story of Saint Maximilian Kolbe. And he was actually there and he was present during the canonization process. But his life, I think, is for him to be prepared to face that reality. Like, I think what Maximilian Kolbe did that I think a lot of people don't realize is that, like the temptation of the time was to spare. Like, you know, death was not the worst thing that could happen to a person at the time. It was to completely lose their souls. And the Germans were trying directly, intentionally trying to make that happen. And so the evil that they were perpetrating on people like Francisco Nietzsche was meant to demoralize and destroy his identity. So, like, not only did Kobe save his his life, but by showing him love and showing him how to face suffering like his soul was also redeemed. And that's like the most, I think, beautiful part of the story of what Kobe was able to do, not just for him, but for the all of the people in Auschwitz at the time that were witnesses to what he did. |
| Mary | One of the aspects of the that that moment when Kobe walks forward and says, take me instead, was that that commandant apparently had an incredible reputation for cruelty, so much so that another inmate who had been kind of standing nearby thought, oh my gosh, he's just going to take them both, because that's the kind of cruel person, but that some kind of change came over his face in that moment. And he granted Kobe's request and left the other man standing. Does your movie go into that particular moment at all, or what might have happened spiritually at at that very second? |
| Anthony D’Ambrosio | Yeah, I think that, every the greatest tragedies, you see this in like, for instance, in hamlet where, the best tragedies give the antagonist a moment where you can tell that they're being seduced by the good, you know, where they have. They're just an inch away from making, from making the decision that would change their life, and that would bring the whole kind of story to a comedic. And by comedic, I don't mean funny, but in the traditional sense, like the this sort of like a whole like it makes the story whole. And I think that that was that a moment like that for, for Fritsch, where he was being kind of presented with this, like fork in the road and quite shockingly, was, was overcome by kind of the heroism of Colby's, stance. And I think that a big part of that is that, like his whole perspective was built on power, and on discipline and Colby is stepping out of line was a was like an act. And people sort of describe it as if it was like kind of halfway between somebody being humble and and being a general, that Colby had this kind of strange combination of those two things in him, of, of kind of being subservient to the commandant and also being another commander advocating for one of his soldiers. And I think that this garnered respect. But I also think that there was this temptation, this is conjecture. So this isn't something that was like written down or anything. But as I kind of like, tried to understand the character of Fritsch, I think that he saw an opportunity to knowing Colby, is this commander, right? That if he enters into this sort of game with the commander and is able to demoralize him and destroy his soul instead, that he will have like a more complete and greater victory, and so on one hand, he's sort of, like, fascinated by Colby's power and discipline and like his love, shocked by it. And then, on the other hand, is is seeing an opportunity to play a political game. And so that was how I portrayed it in the, in the film. |
| Betsy | Anthony, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a really enlightening conversation about a beautiful saint for our times to learn more about triumph of the Heart and Anthony D'Ambrosio, make sure to check out triumph of the heart.com. |
| Ashley | Welcome back to conversations with consequences here on EWTN radio. We are joined by our wonderful TCA chaplain, mom senior Roger Landry, who is going to tell us today a little bit about, these two wonderful saints who are being canonized this upcoming weekend. Welcome to the show, Monsignor. |
| MSGR Landry | It's great to be back with you. Hope you had a wonderful vacation. |
| Ashley | I did, I'm feeling very rested and very ready to to dive right in to this exciting moment in the church where we have the first millennial saints. So tell us, you know so much about both of these, young men. Tell us about them and what to expect in their canonization and, and, and what connections they share. |
| MSGR Landry | So this weekend, this Sunday, we have big news, not just for young Catholics across the globe, but for all Catholics across the globe, because Pope Leo is going to be canonizing two real heroes of faith for people of every generation. The first is now blessed Pierre George of Rosati, who died at the age of 24, 100 years ago this July 4th. He he died July 4th, 1925, and he came from a very well known family in Turin. His dad was the head of La Stampa, a newspaper that still exists. He his dad was a senator, all of it. But very quietly. Pierre Giorgio Versace had this extraordinary mission to the poor as a member of the Society of, Saint Vincent of Paul, he was a third order Dominican and really loved Dominican spirituality. He was a great admirer of the Blessed Sacrament, and he used to bring so many of his friends to adore the Lord there, too. And when John Paul the Second beatified him in 1990, he called him the man of the Beatitudes, somebody who shows us the real joy of Christian life, lived by one's conformity to Jesus. And so he's had a great influence over the course of the last century on young adult Catholics. I like to say, especially young adult women Catholics, because many young adult women find blessed Pierre Giorgio for safety about the most handsome saint of all time. And so I presume that there's going to be a lot of enthusiastic young women in Saint Peter's Square on Sunday. But one young boy who had a great devotion to Pierre Giorgio as he was growing up is the other being canonized Saint Carlo a Kudus, who died in 2006 only at the age of 15. Carlo a Kudus, like almost all boys growing up in Italy, would have had some exposure to to Pierre George of society, and he imitated him in several ways. He imitated his love for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. He imitated Pierre. George goes to extraordinary capacity for friendship. He imitated Pierre Giorgio's great and abundant charity by the way he cared for others. Carlo Kudus has outpaced, Pierre Giorgio Versace as of late. His cult has become one of the largest in the church. Personally, I believe that Carlo Kudus is going to be to the 21st century. What Torres this year was to the 20th century, after the Blessed Mother, after Saint Joseph, the most famous saint of the century. Because he shows not just the young, but everybody how to live our faith in this technological age with great focus on the Lord Jesus. Carlo Kudus is the one who, out of his love for the Lord Jesus, built the miracles of the world site. The Eucharistic posters of 196 great Eucharistic miracles that have crisscrossed the world to all five continents to help us learn what he himself taught in his tender years. That a Eucharistic life is the true highway to heaven. And so how lucky we are to be alive at the time of their canonization. And I would be urging everybody to be tuning on in 20 and early on Sunday morning to watch those beatification live, or if they have to sleep, that that morning, as the French say on Sunday, to at least watch it on demand later, because I think that this is going to be not only a great celebration for the whole church, but Pope Leo is going to sound some notes for all the love for all the young people all across the globe about how not just to celebrate their canonization, but to imitate their Christian life. |
| Ashley | Well, I encourage all our listeners, as Monsignor said, if you can't get up and watch in the morning, you can always replay EWTN coverage live. That's certainly what my family did, during those weeks of the, conclave and the funeral of our past pope. But what an exciting time, to be Catholic, especially for young people, but for all people, as you say. Thank you, Monsignor, for joining us today. |
| MSGR Landry | You're very welcome, actually. And I urge everybody to pray for their you for the young people in their families and in their parishes through the intercession of these two saints would be my blessing. |
| Mary | Welcome back to conversations with consequences here on EWTN radio. I'm your host, Mary Fiorito. |
| Betsy | And I'm Betsy Fentress. |
| Mary | And we are thrilled to have today the one and only Maria miller. She is a singer and songwriter known across the country and the globe. She has performed beautifully at so many events, including Seac. She performed for Pope Francis when he was in Philadelphia in 2015, and she has just released a new song on the soon to be Saints. Carlos, a kudos and Pierre Giorgio Frascati, who will be canonized by Pope Leo the 14th this coming weekend. Maria, thank you so much for making time for us today. |
| Marie Miller | Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. |
| Mary | So you have an interesting journey from pop music to writing songs as a Catholic musician. You were at one point opening up for, of all things, the Backstreet Boys, and you were really in very much a secular sphere and a secular atmosphere, and sometimes you topped the contemporary and Christian Billboard charts. I think at the same time, if I'm correct on that. |
| Marie Miller | So, yes, I had music on, Christian radio that, my song You're Not Alone, actually was number one just for one week, but still, right now and then. Yeah. And then I was also being played on a bunch of pop stations. I don't think I ever charted on those, but, Sirius XM had me on heavy rotation, which was really exciting. So I was being heard by both audiences at the same time, which was awesome. |
| Mary | Well, you're quoted in the Catholic Herald as saying at that time in 2023, I never wanted to say I was a Catholic artist necessarily, really, because I didn't feel like I had it right. I'm just a broken person. I'm a sinner. How can I proclaim the gospel? Can you tell us a little bit more about. That's a beautiful statement, by the way. It's very, you know, it's filled with humility and self-knowledge. But, I think others probably would give you a little bit of pushback on that for saying that you didn't belong yet in the Catholic sphere. |
| Marie Miller | Thank you so much. Well, yes, that's a very honest statement. And for me, what really changed my outlook on that was I started reading about Saint Terese and her way of love, her way of merciful love. And I didn't know really about God's mercy till I started learning about her. And her whole thing is about God's mercy and what she taught me was that God's mercy is not about how good you are, but how good he is. And so his mercy is for all of us. And so what I do with my music is I am always trying to point people towards people that are a lot smarter, a lot holier than me. And so, yeah, as long as I don't go, hey guys, look how great I'm doing. I've got everything together. You need to be just like me. But rather, here is a place where I go to be healed and where I go to become closer to our Lord Jesus. I talk about the Eucharist in my songs. I talk about Saint Marys, I talk about Our Lady, and these are the the weapons we need to fight, sin and evil. So? So that's what I'm doing now. And it but it took me a while to figure that out. |
| Betsy | So, Marie, let's go back to the beginning a little bit. You're from a very large family, I believe. Ten children. And was music a big part of your childhood? And you have other siblings who play instruments? |
| Marie Miller | Yes. Music was a huge part of my childhood and I do have several siblings that are incredibly talented, but they aren't, professional musicians. And so they will play with me every once in a while. But unfortunately, I'm the only one. My dad wanted to start a family band, and I'm the only member left. |
| Betsy | So you play the guitar. You play the mandolin beautifully. I have really enjoyed listening to your work online. And are there any other instruments you play? |
| Marie Miller | Yes, I also play piano and an instrument called the Basuki, which is really just a mandolin an octave lower. And thank you very much. I love my mandolin. It's so easy to travel with too. It's just a little tiny thing. |
| Betsy | I, I noticed that on the videos, and I thought a little bit about Nickel Creek when I was listening to you, and how they were a family band. And who were some of your musical inspirations as you grew up learning? I mean, playing music. |
| Marie Miller | Yes. So Nickel Creek, was a huge inspiration. There was this movement called the New Grass Movement, and Alison Krauss and all these wonderful musicians. Yeah, brought back acoustic music. And I fell in love with that, especially when we moved from California to Virginia and we started learning about bluegrass, new grass, Irish folk music. And yeah, so I actually before Nickel Creek was really popular there. Mandolin player's name is Chris Steely, and I went to a mandolin camp and he was my teacher, and he really. |
| Betsy | He had loved, loved him growing up. Yeah. |
| Marie Miller | Oh, yeah. He doesn't remember this, but I will always remember that he named an exercise after me a pinky exercise. So that's my claim to fame. |
| Mary | Well, like so many people, you were profoundly influenced, Murray, by the Chosen. Can you tell us a little bit about how and why that series impacted you? And are you still a follower of the show today, and does it continue to inspire you? |
| Marie Miller | Yes. The chosen was so important. It was part of that same time that I was reading about Saint Torrez, and I was learning because The chosen chose you very clearly that the disciples are broken and that Jesus is working with them where they are. My favorite scene in The Chosen is in the first season. When our lives. In the first season, it's definitely first or second, and it's when Mary Magdalene and Jesus, she she kind of goes back to her old ways and she says to Jesus, I can't do this. And he says, what? You know? And she says, this, and he says, I just need your heart. The rest will come. And so it really inspired me. One of the most beautiful things about it, too, is that when Jesus in her her, her having that conversation, Our Lady is standing next to her. And that subtle, just awesome idea that in conversation when we come back from our sin is that Our Lady is sort of, with us too. So yes, I do love the chosen. I'm actually I need to catch up on it, but. |
| Mary | It's interesting how it's had such an impact on both Catholics and Protestants, in a very similar way. And I love how you mentioned Our Lady just sort of standing to the side, because I think some of their Protestant writers and producers don't quite know what to do with Mary. And I think it's about a half, half Catholic, Protestant, production. And, but I thought that was a very subtle way as well, to acknowledge her and the way that we see her as an advocate and an intercessor and not imposing her will on others, but rather, you know, praying along with us for the things that that she hopes will bring us closer to her son. So, yeah, it's been a profoundly impactful movie. But again, I think what's drawn so many people like you is the very brokenness of those characters. |
| Marie Miller | Yeah. No, totally. And what a gift it is. I do think that there's a renaissance of Christian Gen art, especially in film, and I'm just seeing some really beautiful, beautiful stuff coming out. There's a a movie about Max and Colby that's, that's coming out and just so beautiful that we're seeing. And these are young artists. I just did, the Napa Institute had its first art festival, which, had brought a bunch of artists and artists doing really big things, in the church and outside of the church. And so I'm excited. And the chosen, I think, kind of spearheaded that. And so it's it's a great gift. And I really hope that this grows because it's an exciting time for artists right now. |
| Betsy | So, Marie, as Mary mentioned in the introduction, you were, an intro lead in to the Backstreet Boys. Tell us how you got from playing music with your dad up to then, and then we'll go from there to how you became uniquely Catholic artist at this point. |
| Marie Miller | Yes. So grew up, playing bluegrass music. I got signed to curb Records when I was 15, their country label, but they also had a Christian side. So I actually started out doing Christian music. But then, what happened was, was that I got on Sirius XM on their pop station, and so then the record label just ran with that and said, okay, we're going to do this. And so I thought, okay, cool. I mean, my songs are mainly about relationships and friendships and growing up, and I wasn't really writing as much Christian music at that time. And so it worked out. And then, yeah, so they put me on the road all the time. I was at tons of radio stations performing my music, promoting it, and yes, got to open for the Backstreet Boys and also for fighting and the Wallflowers and went on tours and everything, and I loved it so much. I've, I've always, always loved being on stage performing. It's so it feels more like home than anything else. And so for me it was amazing. But, as I got older and as I was thinking about these lyrics I'm writing about particularly romance and heartbreak, and I was asking the question, so if all these relationships worked out, if all these aches in my heart, were gone, would I be fully satisfied? And as I grew in my faith, I knew the answer was no. And that my heart was shaped for an infinite heart, for love. So much bigger than any person could ever give me. And it was the love of Jesus. Jesus. And so I started writing more in that vein. And when and then I was. But I was too scared because I thought, oh my gosh, I'm watching all these, Catholic speakers at all these conferences and things, and they look so perfect. And I'm not really, I don't know if I belong and all that kind of stuff, and but I've been around the Catholic world my whole life. My dad is a vice president at focus, and I just been around this world. And so it was it was kind of easy in some ways, but very intimidating to and but when again, Saint Teresa's it was with me and really I my goal is, is just to to bring the people closer to the Lord through my music. So John Paul the second says, beauty is a call to transcendence. It stirs in us the hidden nostalgia for God and man. Beauty has done that for me in my life so much as just being, seeing a sunset or hearing a beautiful piece of music or watching a beautiful film. I mean, it just stirs in us. So I wanted to do that to. |
| Betsy | Well, I'm glad. |
| Mary | You go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. |
| Betsy | I was just going to follow up because I read that, that his letter to artists was very important for you. And I just wanted you to tell our listeners a little bit about that. |
| Marie Miller | Yeah. So I read his letter when I was really young, and it was a big part of how I started connecting beauty with my faith. So when I was younger, it was, okay, we have to go to church and we have to pray. My family is super Catholic, but and I get to do really fun stuff like play music. So. So I'm thinking, okay, you got to go to church, but you get to sing and you get to play music. But John Paul the second was the first person that showed me that, that the beauty that I was so attracted to was pointing towards beauty himself. And so this longing in my heart was for the transcendent, for him and his beauty. And so then it started connecting. And and that was really, really special for me. |
| Mary | But, Marie, you're relatively recently married. Within the last few years. And speaking of things that are transcendent, you know, it's been said that marriage is one of the ways that, we can better understand God's love for us is, you know, that exclusive and faithful love. How has being married, affected the way that you write your lyrics or that you think about what you're saying? |
| Marie Miller | Yes. And so when I decided to go to just a religious music, marriage had a big part of it. And also just the potential for motherhood, was that I don't want to bring my kids to a folk festival at 11 p.m., concert. And in that environment, even in the best places, there's still a lot of secular influence. And I want to wanted to bring them and I want to bring them to places that that are beautiful, that are, that have the mass and adoration. And so that really was a big part of it. So for the Lord is, not giving us, earthly children yet, but it's still in my mind. It's like, okay, I want to be as holy as possible, for my future children. And. Yeah, and also just for my husband, too, because marriage is really hard. No one told me that. |
| Mary | Really? They don't go over that africana in much depth. Yeah. |
| Marie Miller | So I think I think probably the closer you are to, to Christ, the easier it is. And so, so that's definitely, a factor as well. |
| Betsy | Well, it's interesting because on your website, I listened to a beautiful rendition of Tum Tum Ergo. So let's talk a little bit about contemporary worship music and how there's some people who are hardcore that they want really old hymns, tried and true, which I love. There are some people that say, oh, to reach young people, you need to have contemporary music. Where do you fall on? On how you when you listen to what kinds of music and and what you think about certain kinds of music in church and in mass? |
| Marie Miller | It's a great question being some of that loves folk music, which is a music that promotes tradition, this idea that we're, we're, having music that was saying, you know, hundreds of years ago, and now we're singing it today. Now we're playing it today. I tend to love more of the hymns now. I love Irish hymns, songs that, like my vision is from an Irish tune. I love any of that. The King of Love, my Shepherd is. Those are some of my favorites. And so personally, my personal taste is is hymns with a little bit of a contemporary bent to it. That's what, moves me the most. And of course, it's so subjective. I a lot of my friends do worship music, and they love that. I tend to love, yeah, a contemporary style him the most put it. I think it all works. And I wrote a song with Sarah Hart, who is in all the hymnals. We wrote a song called woman, and so every time I'm singing this new contemporary song, if I go to a more contemporary church, I go, oh, who wrote that? Oh, it's Sarah Hart. So? So I'm, I'm writing with people that do contemporary stuff, but and for me, it's more a little more traditional. |
| Mary | So at the time we're taping this Marie, we're coming up or several days away now from the canonization of two young men, Carlos Cutis and Pierre Jorge Neal for SRT. Talk to us a little bit about how, you know, two young Italian men who, you know, didn't spend a whole lot of time like Joseph Lucio didn't spend a whole lot of time on this side of the veil, but they seem to have had a really profound impact on you. Can you describe how how you came to know them first, and then what particularly about their lives impacted you the most? |
| Marie Miller | Yes. So Carla Cutis came into my life when I was going through a really hard time, and I was looking for a novena to do, and I just went in, which Saint would be nine days after I do this, or ten days I can't remember what I chose. And it was Carla Curtis. I'd never heard of him, and I grew up with awesome brothers, and I have a lot of really great guy friends. I was a tomboy growing up, and so when I read about him, I was thinking, this could be my brother. He could be my brother, he could be my friend. So I started talking to him in a way that maybe I wouldn't talk to another saint. And so we became friends very quickly. And what I love most about him is his love for the Eucharist and how he would go to adoration before school. Because adoration has been what's what's changed my life so much and what, what makes me love the mass so much to so I actually struggle sometimes paying attention and mass. But when I spend time in adoration and I realize who I'm about to receive, it's much easier. So I love him for that. I just thought he was really cool. People really focus on the computer side of Carlo, but I think that there's a lot more to him too. I mean, he was seems like just a really cool kid who was just friendly and kind. And I love the picture of him in the Spider-Man Halloween costume. So, I love that. And also, you guys are amazing. I loved listening to, fun facts about Carlo that you guys posted. That was awesome. So, yeah, I don't know as much about Pure Georgia for, but in the same way they talk about heaven is our homeland right to the Heights, this idea that we are climbing a mountain towards God. And so that's why my song is called Highest Home, because I think they both had very clear vision that that we are not made for this earth. |
| Betsy | You wrote a beautiful op ed about that song in which you wrote, our culture is obsessed with superheroes and stories about young people saving the day. But what's more heroic than choosing to be a saint? What's more radical? The giving your whole life to Christ? Do you ever have young people write to you or come up to you or say, this, this, this really speaks to me. As you know, we're going into this is Mary said big weekend with these two saints. How does all of that, impact you in the feedback that you get from people about writing songs like that? |
| Marie Miller | Yeah. Oh my goodness, it's the best compliment I was ever given was that a girl heard me sing and she said, I just want to go pray. I just want to go pray now. And, that was just as a Catholic artist, that is the greatest gift you can ever hear, because you don't want people to to just go back and go, oh, that was cool. Thanks for singing. But really that it leads them to beauty himself. And so this song I hope will help young people really think about, like, I don't have to wait. When I was young, I loved to dwell on the existential crisis of being young. And I was like, it's life is so hard. No one understands me. I really kind of leaned into mediocrity. And these men, these young men, they were able to go, no, I want to be a saint now. And so that's what I really hope that they see. But yeah, it's it's amazing for me. Before, when I would sing about heartbreaker or your, like, friendships that didn't work out and people would say, oh, I really relate to that. That's good. You know, we all can can have those moments. But wow, it's a lot cooler when someone says, I want to pray afterwards. It just makes me so happy. |
| Mary | Well do you find that you're resonating with young adult and teenage Catholic women? You know, I, I feel like so many of them, I have three young adult, girl daughters or obviously girl daughters, I'm after sister girls. And they're really finding it difficult, you know, to sort of connect in a world that I guess now more than ever, is just simply so focused on not just materialism, but also physical looks, all of those things. And then, of course, you know, God appreciates beauty and, wants them to, you know, as you said, lean in, you know, to to the gifts that God's given them. But how do you find, you know, the messages that you're trying to, impart to young women these days? What do you find that their struggles are specifically and how do you feel that the particular message of your music can reach them? |
| Marie Miller | Yeah, I think they struggle with the same thing that I struggle with, which is so Saint, you're as compared herself to the woman at the well, which is crazy. How different could these two women be? But she said, I wish to quench the thirst like the woman at Samaria. And I think sometimes we think that God's thirst for our love is measured by our brokenness, and we don't think about his. He truly thirst for us no matter where we are. And also does he thirst for us because we hear a lot of stories about big conversions and then super holy saints. But what about us in the middle right? The non splashy sins, the everyday brokenness? Does Jesus thirst for us too? And so I really struggle with truly believing that. The truly believing that he wants me right where I am. Mother Teresa has this amazing letter that she writes to her sisters, and she says, you don't have to be different to be loved. And that is really what I struggle with. And so when I sing my song, woman, I talk about that because I just because I can't, I can't teach. I can just tell you how I feel about things and I but I have found that that's that's been helpful that that just knowing that Jesus thirsts for you right where you are. |
| Betsy | One of your early songs that that was quite a hit, you said was written for a friend of yours. Can you tell us about that song and how your songwriting has progressed? Are you still looking for themes from friends? Are you more focused on the Saints now? |
| Marie Miller | Yes. I wrote that song, for a friend that was going through a really hard time and his parents were going through a divorce, and I didn't know what to say to him, and my sister and I decided to give up sweets for a year. That sounds really impressive, but we're not. Wow. We're not really sweets people, though. So I mean, it was like, good, but it wasn't. It would be way harder if you were a chocolate lover or something. We were not that it was just a little thing for us, but we wanted to do something and, but we just thought that would be just a nice thing and just to go, okay, we're going to do what we can and we're going to be with him through it or a walk through this really difficult times. So the idea you're not alone, I'm going to stand with you no matter what's going on. And I would say that I am writing mostly about religious themes at the moment, but I kind of just let my writing lead me where, where, where I'm feeling. So I'm not opposed to writing about other things. And when I perform, I still perform those old songs. I wrote a song called Six Foot Two about praying for your future husband, and you're going. |
| Betsy | To ask about that? |
| Marie Miller | Yeah, yeah. |
| Betsy | So was that a song or a prayer? |
| Marie Miller | That was a prayer song, right? Yeah. No, I wrote it as a joke and I got and it was funny. I wrote it as a joke, and then the record label said, oh, we love this one. And, that one was on actually on Dancing With the stars. Believe it or not, they dance, they waltz to it, which is so special. So a prayer was on dancing with the stars, so. |
| Betsy | Well. |
| Mary | Well, who do you think among the secular artists that everybody knows are kind of giving stealth spiritual messages? I think of Dolly Parton sometimes when I think of this, because a lot of her music is deeply spiritual. And, even artists like Tom Petty or Bruce Springsteen have particular songs where, they do have some kind of faith. It might not be the way we express it. So anybody else who you particularly like and in modern music, now that, that you find also brings a spiritual message to people? |
| Marie Miller | Yeah, I would say that Carrie Underwood did a gospel album, which I thought was really great. And I think of some of the country artists are leaning in to their faith quite a bit. Randy Travis, who can't sing anymore. It's really sad he lost his voice, but he was an artist. Yeah, back in the day, I think his gospel album was so great. And even just three Wide and Crosses, is a song that he wrote. So I love when that when there's a kind of a break through in it, I again, my knowledge is much more country and folk, so that's what I know. But I love, I mean, gosh, I love Andre Pacelli, and all the stuff that he does. So it's so cool to see that. But also, wouldn't you say too, is that I think actors are really kind of coming out as Christians right now, which has been really cool. I don't remember that growing up. I feel like it's kind of a new thing. |
| Mary | Who are you thinking of specifically? |
| Marie Miller | Chris Pratt and Mark Wahlberg? I was just, I sang, at a mass. And Patricia Heaton from Everybody Loves Raymond was there. |
| Mary | You know, she's had a huge reversion. Yeah. So I outspoken. |
| Marie Miller | Yeah. So it's really cool because it just gives you, as artists, especially this feeling that, you know, you don't have to be shy. You just be yourself. And, don't be afraid to talk about Jesus. |
| Betsy | Marie, we just have a little bit of time left. Tell us what's in store and where you'll be, performing within the next six months and how all our listeners can find out more about you and listen to your work. |
| Marie Miller | Yes. So my website is Marie Miller music.com, and my Instagram is Marie Miller sing on the website. There's the calendar. So you can see where I am going to be. Yeah. Just kind of all over the place. Right now my most special event will be at in Lafayette, Louisiana in front of Saint Teresa's relics. I'll be able to give my musical presentation on her, on the way of love. So I interweave my songs and stories. And her teachings. And so I can't believe she's going to be in the US. Her relics will be here, so I'll get to do that. And then, that's exciting. I'll also be, singing with the Notre Dame Choir, next week, and I'll be recording with them. And I always wanted to go to Notre Dame. So this is this is my, my way of getting in. My brother and my husband went, so now I'm excited. I get to say I did something at Notre Dame. |
| Mary | Right. Well, it's it's a beautiful campus this time of year as well. And, I didn't realize that Teresa's relics were back in the U.S. I think it's been like 25 years, so how exciting to be present for that. So. Well, listeners, again, if you'd like to, follow Marie Miller or learn a little bit more about her music, Marie Miller music.com, and to learn more about us at the Catholic Association, follow us at the Catholic association.org and you'll find everything that we do in radio, TV, print, online and in our local communities. This has been Mary Fiorito and Betsy Fentress with Mary Miller. Thank you for joining us today. |